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[Silas Vitalia]

Wormhole entities opening portals into normal reality, launching piratical attacks, and vanishing back into their territory.  It's actually very neat RP to interact with on either side. There's opportunities for pew pew, character work, etc. 
I think you're statements are coming more from a place perhaps of unfamiliarity?

The only RP comments I've ever seen from wormhole players, have been "oh, I'm patrolling space, keeping out intruders, collapsing wormholes as they open", not about leaving their wormhole base to intrude into other people's spaces.

What's wrong with that? They are IC doing their IC homeland thing.  Go throw rocks at them and invade their shit if you want? Or cooperate? Haul supplies to them? Spy on them? There's no difference between that and any other RP activity.

I'll even throw out its probably a damn sight more productive and OOC respect-worthy because it requires some real effort to make WH living work as opposed to being spoonfed everything in highsec.

I also RPd with non RPers every day.  Especially hostile wormhole groups opening rifts into Kingdom lowsec.

You could do a whole loyalist corp based on a task force designed to close hostile wormholes into Empire.  That could be a thing. 

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Actually, I'd venture the claim that I am more secluded over long times in my RP, than wormhole-dwellers:
I RP mostly, nowadays, in private channels, with select indviduals, where no one can possibly invade and where the most of the interaction is largely - I dare to say it - irrelevant for the cluster. Yesternight was the first time in years (I think) that I undocked to shoot at something - and then I was fashionably late. I'm a carebear nowadays and I don't shoot people. Even my times as forum-warrior are largely past me. So what? I still RP, every now and then.

Irrelevant has - just as relevant - two points of reference: X is (ir)relevant to Y. So, while my private RP might be vastly irelephant to most of the RPers in EVE, it is quite relevant to me and the other parties involved in the RP (I hope (; ). So, I think Anslo is quite right: All RP is relevant (to someone), else it wouldn't happen.

P.S.: And we really should respect that it is relevant to those people, instead of fenigrating it as 'irrelevant', because we don't have the angle to see it's relevance.

[Louella Dougans]

This thread reminds me of some of the threads that used to appear on a different forum, years ago. Before FW.

When FW appeared, and numerous "non-rp" corporations joined, there was a lot of sound and fury on that forum.

The argument generally went:
1. That player JerkAss McJerk is a rude obnoxious player, who makes -ist comments in local whenever they are engaged by our corporation.
2. JerkAss McJerk is in Particular Militia.
3. Therefore it is incumbent on RPers of Particular Faction to police the entire militia.
4. Since Particular Faction RPers have not policed JerkAss McJerk out of Particular Militia, it is clear that Particular Faction RPers are Bad People, who condone -ist behaviour.
5. Shame on Particular Faction RPers. Shame. Shaaaaaaaaaaaaame.



The accompanying argument was:
1. Particular Militia exists.
2. Particular faction RPers not engaged in FW, are obviously Bad Players who lack RP integrity, and thus can be completely ignored OOC and IC, as having irrelevant opinions.
3. Shame on Particular Faction RPers. Shaaaame.



Anyway

On the topic of Non-FW activities to "support your faction", there have been a tiny number of things, almost all of which have been CCP run live events, of varying quality and immersiveness - the Sansha's Nation live events, some of which had questionable timings - e.g. half an hour between "30 minutes before operation complete" and "20 minutes before operation complete" announcements by the Nation NPC actor. The other, far more recent thing, was the "research race", which involved expending a lot of assets, to determine CCPs release schedule of T3 destroyers.

That's not a lot of opportunities to "support your faction", over what? 7 years now ?


Also, I didn't know there were so many closet blooders in the militias.

lol chatsubo

[Jekaterine]

[mod]This topic has had some robust discussion. I suggest that the level is upheld and that derailing is kept to a minimum. Add to the topic and stay away from shitposting.[/mod]

[Louella Dougans]

What's wrong with that?

it's isolationist.

all the wormhole rp'ers i've ever heard of are isolationist.

most of the other rp'ers I've ever met are isolationist too.

Almost nobody wants to do things with other people. It's always about "look at this stuff we do!".

Nobody other than maybe Nauplius, and the people in PIE and other FW groups seems interested in doing stuff with or to other player groups.

Everyone seems burned out.

[Saede Riordan]

We're not isolationist, we just prefer our content to be in wormholes. We have tons of interaction with other players. Maybe not well known RPers, but we definitely don't just hide in our hole all the time. We built our sandcastle and its awesome, we're not avoiding anyone. We're just doing the content we enjoy. 

[Korsavius]

Can I hide in your hole, Saede? *wiggly eyebrows*


Regarding the topic at hand, maybe it is just me viewing Eve Online for what it is (it is a game), I try to avoid OOC drama at all costs. When it comes to dealing with certain topics ICly, there is a different approach for each situation.

For example, regarding the whole "PYRE housing Nation loyalists" thing, I can see the OOC reasons for doing so. IC, Kor already had a discussion with Pieter and Desi about it and quite frankly he has no strong qualms about it (but does feel slightly uneasy despite their best assurances). In the end, he doesn't give two cat butts about it because PYRE operates in the Amarr WZ and I-RED does not. Moreover, Kor is too busy focused on erasing filthy Guri from the face of the cluster to care all too much about Sansha.

I suppose an alternative way to view this would be similar to what Pieter mentioned earlier about I-RED being filthy fabulous liberals. Kor sees PYRE as filthy patriots tarnishing the honor and reputation of themselves, KK, and the State by working alongside universal criminals. And that it totally fine because while PYRE gets flak for openly working with universal criminals, no one sees Kor working with... *ahem* ...interesting parties behind the scenes.

>_>
<_<

[Silas Vitalia]

What's wrong with that?

it's isolationist.

all the wormhole rp'ers i've ever heard of are isolationist.

most of the other rp'ers I've ever met are isolationist too.

Almost nobody wants to do things with other people. It's always about "look at this stuff we do!".

Nobody other than maybe Nauplius, and the people in PIE and other FW groups seems interested in doing stuff with or to other player groups.

Everyone seems burned out.

If they are isolationists then it's because other groups allow them to be and support it.   There's no game rule, or game mechanic, stopping you from tracking down their house and burning it to the ground. Or paying someone else to do it. Or launching a PR campaign to have it done.  Or tracking it down and moving in to share with them.

You're also making some big assumptions there about a whole lot of other people outside of FW you don't know as well.   

[Louella Dougans]

You're also making some big assumptions there about a whole lot of other people outside of FW you don't know as well.   

  

Can only go on what appears in public on the Summit and the IGS. And what appears there, is a bunch of people who give the impression of not wanting to do things with or to other people.

[Anskek]

You're also making some big assumptions there about a whole lot of other people outside of FW you don't know as well.   

  

Can only go on what appears in public on the Summit and the IGS. And what appears there, is a bunch of people who give the impression of not wanting to do things with or to other people.

Ahem.

[Silas Vitalia]

You're also making some big assumptions there about a whole lot of other people outside of FW you don't know as well.   

  

Can only go on what appears in public on the Summit and the IGS. And what appears there, is a bunch of people who give the impression of not wanting to do things with or to other people.

I understand your sentiment, but that's like watching American talking head cable news and assuming that's what is going on in the wider world.

The Summit and the IGS have not been representative of things going on for a long time :/

I check in on things every few months and I see the same people shitting up the place, honestly.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I can see both sides of this argument.

I don't think womrholers are absolutely isolationist in all respects; I've met wormholers who regularly chatted with outside members and even developed story arcs for other characters that did't focus on WHs. Even last night, I dragged a bunch of wormholers - most of whom were not RPers to begin wtih - out of our hole for the POS fight in Oyonata and I don't intend to make Esna's RP isolated whatsoever - he will still regularly appear in Kspace and be involved in story arcs there.

On the other hand, WH gameplay by its very nature does demand some degree of isolation; because system control is often the deciding factor in when fights happen and how they end, closing your system to as much unintended traffic as possible is a very necessary part of active wormhole life. For an RPer who wants to build something of their own especially, WH space holds value as one of the few places in which you can be relatively sure your operation isn't going to be curbstomped by a fleet of bored supercapitals.

[Anskek]

In addition, the alien nature of worm hole systems themselves open up a vast amount of RP possibilities that need not be constrained by the strict interpretations of PF. No I'm not talking about finding Jamyl's illegitimate husband in a Sleeper pod or something. No, I'm talking about the 'little things.'

World building can occur in small sizes. Not all needs to be larger than life. A disease here, a city there, a village here, a planet unique tech or trend there. It all adds to the universe. If it isn't god moddy or trying to influence vast swaths of space, who give two tugs of a dead dog's cock? It's adding to the world and RP in general. And Gods' know we need it.

If people wanna be butte's and dismiss wormhole content or other world building content that is, for me anyway, like finding a neat little trinket in a thrift shop that stands out from the rest of the same old same old, then I feel sad for them. Limiting themselves like that.

To the rest of you buildin dat content? Shine on you crazy diamonds (note this does not mean I won't roflstomp you if given the chance).

[Silas Vitalia]

In addition, the alien nature of worm hole systems themselves open up a vast amount of RP possibilities that need not be constrained by the strict interpretations of PF. No I'm not talking about finding Jamyl's illegitimate husband in a Sleeper pod or something. No, I'm talking about the 'little things.'

World building can occur in small sizes. Not all needs to be larger than life. A disease here, a city there, a village here, a planet unique tech or trend there. It all adds to the universe. If it isn't god moddy or trying to influence vast swaths of space, who give two tugs of a dead dog's cock? It's adding to the world and RP in general. And Gods' know we need it.

If people wanna be butte's and dismiss wormhole content or other world building content that is, for me anyway, like finding a neat little trinket in a thrift shop that stands out from the rest of the same old same old, then I feel sad for them. Limiting themselves like that.

To the rest of you buildin dat content? Shine on you crazy diamonds (note this does not mean I won't roflstomp you if given the chance).

Yes.  I still fart in the general direction of Saede and your multiple clonin' you heard me girl, faaaart in your general direction.   

[Anskek]

But while Silas does (you stank FC), you're still doing stuff instead of blowing hot air. Is it pvp? No. But so what? It adds to the world. And honestly any of you people who actually discourage that kind of content addition (and don't you fucking say no one does that, I know better than anyone here that's a load of shit) really need to take a good look at RP. Look at this thread. Look in-game.

We need new stuff. Why the fuck are you discouraging anything?

Christ.