Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lyn Farel]

Last time I did that I got yelled at because I was taking it OOCly... Well at least it was not a big deal since it was nothing at all actually. But if there is one thing I have learned with the eve RP community, is that as soon as you start to open an OOC bracket at some point, it is often severely frowned upon.

Being involved often in 'political' discussions, those plot holes appear often in the way. Especially when you start arguing about CONCORD legitimacy, that kind of things. Then you have people that come and say "they politics make no sense because of x". Well, they are right, it makes no sense. So basically, my argument is void.

It doesn't happen only with CONCORD of course, but the main issue is often found in CONCORD ruleset. I can imagine that Sansha loyalists had a lot of trouble to deal with the stupidity of sansha incursions too.

I know we can perfectly choose to ignore or belittle things like pve casualties scale of doom, but for CONCORD it is a lot harder for example. And even for pve casualties, you will always have people that will tell you "EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS INGAME IS IC". Well it's bullshit imo, but that's a school of thought.

The thing is that contrary to a lot of people that use plot holes as a way to win ICly ("Ha ! Got you !"), I like to understand why someone like Saede can have multiple clones like she does. It's not that I'm against it - actually I am all for it if it floats her boat - but somehow, ICly, I HAVE to explain it rationally, at least.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

<snip>
The thing is that contrary to a lot of people that use plot holes as a way to win ICly ("Ha ! Got you !"), I like to understand why someone like Saede can have multiple clones like she does. It's not that I'm against it - actually I am all for it if it floats her boat - but somehow, ICly, I HAVE to explain it rationally, at least.

How about this. As I understand it a lot of the FTL comms used to transfer personas to a new clone use quantum entanglement, and the tech is largely supervised by CONCORD.

If all of Saede's clones are made "off grid" in the wormhole her corp has colonised they can be set up to be synchronised using facilities there. The tech exists, and it is entirely possible that she has access to an outlaw baseliner tech crew who run it for her. If only one clone at a time is ever using a capsule, then how is CONCORD to know anything iffy is going on? Granted yacking about it on the Neo-Com is a bit rash. But eggers say crazy stuff all the time so it might get lost in the noise.

Come to that. Given the description some of these "clones" read a bit like biomechanical remotes rather than individuals in their own right. That could just be an extension of drone control tech and nothing for CONCORD to get aggravated about.

[Lyn Farel]

Oh don't worry, the case for Saede's clones has already resolved since the first pages of this thread as far as I am concerned, you may even find several different ways to explain it. If only it was that simple with PF inconsistencies...

[Morwen Lagann]

What I was getting at - to use one of Lyn's examples here - is that not even the Sansha loyalist RPers are really Sansha loyalists.

It's a minor thing that most of our characters ignore, but it's not something that most of the Sansha RPers ignore (afaik anyway) - they will NEVER be part of Kuvakei's utopia and they know it. They will always be kept at arm's length, given only the information they need in order to be made useful but never enough that they could cause serious harm should they choose to act like the unbound capsuleers that they are.

[John Revenent]

A lot of it is sourced from a Q&A conversation with CCP Falcon, where he responded to questions regarding how capsuleers and NPC groups react.

Key points were:
- CONCORD can shut off freelance capsuleers' (i.e., us) capsules if needed.
- Anything that runs through your Neocom can be potentially viewed and tinkered with by CONCORD.
- CONCORD maintains agents whose job is purely to look at capsuleers and make sure aren't wandering to far.
- True pirate-loyalist capsuleers (meaning, event actors) and empire navy capsuleers are not subject to these restrictions.
- A ton (though not all) of NPC infrastructure is hidden from us, including stargates, mining havens, and facilities such as fleet staging areas and shipyards. Sometimes these sites are revealed to us by choice (i.e., in missions so we can help) and sometimes when activity at them makes them noticeable to our sensors (i.e., anomalies  and combat sigs). Most of it stays unnoticed.
- Asked if NPC groups might eventually open their hidden stargates/stations to us, "no, because capsuleers have such a reputation for being violent and unstable, they want a fallback that we can't mess up."
- Nullsec alliances do pay CONCORD fees.
- The production and research slots we use are separate facilities from the lines used by the NPC groups (not sure how this works with the recent industry changes, should ask him).

I hope people read this. I know some people like to ignore a few points listed here. >.>

We think we are gods, but really CONCORD is our keeper in most if not all aspects.

[Ché Biko]

Hmm.
The points about capsules, neocom and NPC infrastructure of that Q&A raise more questions than it gives answers for me. Some of it could possibly to be in conflict with some other lore-like stuff, like about the SCC and CONCORD on the wiki, and the Origins trailer.
But it's hard to judge these things by learning about them second hand without context.
When did this Q&A happen?

[Halcyon]

Ok
The point is, where technology exists there are ways around it. SO apparently we're all sitting around pleasantly with the wool pulled over our eyes by concord?
This seems unlikely.
The whole "There's a ton of stuff in space but concord is hiding it seems like a really poor explanation to mesh mechanics with lore. I see no reason to handwave all retarded mechanics like this as lore.

[Halcyon]

There's not even a link to actual solid information just "Falcon said this once"
As far as explanations goes I'm putting this on the same list as "Big Al says dogs can't look up"

[Ember Vykos]

A lot of it is sourced from a Q&A conversation with CCP Falcon, where he responded to questions regarding how capsuleers and NPC groups react.

Key points were:
- CONCORD can shut off freelance capsuleers' (i.e., us) capsules if needed.
- Anything that runs through your Neocom can be potentially viewed and tinkered with by CONCORD.
- CONCORD maintains agents whose job is purely to look at capsuleers and make sure aren't wandering to far.
- True pirate-loyalist capsuleers (meaning, event actors) and empire navy capsuleers are not subject to these restrictions.
- A ton (though not all) of NPC infrastructure is hidden from us, including stargates, mining havens, and facilities such as fleet staging areas and shipyards. Sometimes these sites are revealed to us by choice (i.e., in missions so we can help) and sometimes when activity at them makes them noticeable to our sensors (i.e., anomalies  and combat sigs). Most of it stays unnoticed.
- Asked if NPC groups might eventually open their hidden stargates/stations to us, "no, because capsuleers have such a reputation for being violent and unstable, they want a fallback that we can't mess up."
- Nullsec alliances do pay CONCORD fees.
- The production and research slots we use are separate facilities from the lines used by the NPC groups (not sure how this works with the recent industry changes, should ask him).

I hope people read this. I know some people like to ignore a few points listed here. >.>

We think we are gods, but really CONCORD is our keeper in most if not all aspects.

Some of that I can see...some of it makes no sense to me.
NPCs hiding stuff sure that's totally feasible in my head even if a bit of a stretch.
The first two CONCORD points...no. The part about the Neocom is believable, but the amount of data to sift through gives plenty of leeway to say they don't know it all. The first one I have a hard time believing at all. After all if the pirate factions can bypass CONCORD then capsuleers can too if so inclined. Other wise whats the point of even playing a pirate loyalist? Being allowed by the powers that be to play pirate just seems stupid to me. I mean most pirates give the middle finger to the man and here we are saying that the man lets us do it. Also...hyperdunking...ganking I can see as CONCORD not being able to do much, but that...well I don't care how laid back a police force is...I doubt they would let that become a thing.

Some mechanics we kinda have to look over for RPs sake. At least I think we do...and I doubt I'm alone in this. I'm by no means an RP/lore purist and as long as it generally fits within the EVE universe and makes sense I'm all for it. I know some people will probably complain about this or that breaking their immersion...but a pirate that has their balls on a leash held by the universal police force...that pretty much kills my immersion and my desire to really RP as such or even to RP as someone slightly outside of the boundaries of the law.

[Lyn Farel]

On the issue that pirate factions can bypass CONCORD infrastructure and not freelance capsuleers, a possible explanation is that freelance capsuleers are given their tools and status by CONCORD and using CONCORD infrastructure, while pirate factions have always been out of the loop to begin with, and have built their own. The question is, what prevents capsuleers to do the same ? Not sure. Lack of means ? Sounds stretched to me.

Your point about playing a pirate is a good point. There is 2 schools of thoughts on that :

- You are part of a pirate faction that gives you their own infrastructure, explaining why you clone up outside of CONCORD regulated cloning bays, maybe in shady parts of a high sec station, or in nullsec pirate stations. It also implies that CONCORD has no control over your neocom and capsule, or otherwise they would know it and shut it down for good. The only issue I see is that it's not like capsuleers are millions, so it should not be too hard to see that some capsuleers seem to pop out of nowhere and so, are using illegal infrastructures.

- You play in the game as a freelance capsuleers and so, are just that, a freelance capsuleer regulated by CONCORD. You can't play a faction capsuleer, which includes empire state capsuleers as well as pirate factioned capsuleers that are regulated by their own empire/pirate faction. So you can't fight for your empire, except by joining their proxy war thingy made for independent capsuleers, but you will never be part of the Gallente Navy or Ishukone Watch or whatever. You can't also be part of the pirate capsuleers lapdogs and be say, a Cartel lieutenant. Some will also argue that nobody plays a state capsuleer, so why pirate loyalists feel the need to play as part of the armed forces of their pirate faction ? So the issue is indeed, why bother playing a pirate loyalist when you can't be more than a pirate sympathizer ? Well, TSF folks will be able to talk better about it than myself... But eventually, the issue remains the same : why bother playing a faction loyalist, pirate or empire side, when you perfectly know that your role will only to be a cheerleader for your faction and nothing else, except once in a year when you will have the opportunity to play alongside NPC actors that are truly part of your beloved faction.

[Ember Vykos]

Using illegal infrastructure is half the fun

Honestly I do like that option better just because I don't see "the powers that be" actually allowing a freelance anything to openly break the law without much recourse. If CCP turned CONCORD into an AI I have a feeling that if it then applied CONCORD stuff to RPers....we'd all be banned 

The freelance angle makes sense...it's just that it still runs into the problem of CONCORD having you dead to rights if they really wanted it. That part actually doesn't make sense to me. I mean Veto probably wouldn't exist if that was the case, same with Naraka, Stillwater, and any other pirate sympathizers you wanna name that I cant think of atm. Being an Empire loyalist is easy CONCORD wouldn't have a huge problem with that since they regulate the empires. They wouldn't have a problem with null groups since they pay taxes. Pirate groups don't do either of those..well maybe indirectly through sale of loot, but i doubt that really counts. So then what's CONCORDS reason for letting them do what they do?

[Halcyon]

A few more things
We can see NPCs undock from station. If Concord are hiding them we shouldn't
We can still smartbomb gates in high sec and kill all the NPCs we can't see.

The logically progression of "Freelance capsuleers need to be controlled by software in their pods" is that we're not actually undocking. Concord is running the matrix on us.

[Samira Kernher]

Maybe the reason they're called smartbombs because they do damage to everything except civilian ships.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Halcyon]

Maybe the reason they're called smartbombs because they do damage to everything except civilian ships.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I'd term that grasping at straws. Especially as the argument so far is that things don't happen because concord prevents it.

[Ember Vykos]

Maybe the reason they're called smartbombs because they do damage to everything except civilian ships.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

 .... ....