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[Louella Dougans]

Here are some things I've had people claim at me:
- That Russians are an actual group in the setting based on their widespreadness in the game community, even though that breaks immersion enough on it's own and defeats the whole point!

that's an extrapolation from a very minor one line in Templar One, where a Russian word is described as a Khanid dialect.

 

[Gwen Ikiryo]

Here are some things I've had people claim at me:
- That Russians are an actual group in the setting based on their widespreadness in the game community, even though that breaks immersion enough on it's own and defeats the whole point!

that's an extrapolation from a very minor one line in Templar One, where a Russian word is described as a Khanid dialect.

 

Ugh, that's so dumb!

[Gaven Lok ri]

Everything needs an IC explanation, including the russians, but they don't have to be *Actual* Russians. Its generally assumed that language in EVE is not actual modern language, anyways.

[Anyanka Funk]

Honestly, I have mixed feeling about Eves literally-everything-is-IC attitude. While I really like and admire it for it's effect on immersion, I think it also fosters kind of awkward trend of both players and developers trying to make everything in game work ICly, even when it streches the game world to a ridiculous point and would be better off being glossed over. Here are some things I've had people claim at me:

- That pod pilots are not permitted to go down to planets under any circumstances. Ever.
- That all stations have a mandatedly uniform internal structure.
- That all clones are based around identical templates, which is why pod pilots never have height or body type variation (I heard this one from a dev!)
- That Russians are an actual group in the setting based on their widespreadness in the game community, even though that breaks immersion enough on it's own and defeats the whole point!

It also seems to lead to bunch of really awkward in-universe justifications when the lore inescapably conflicts with the gameplay, that players feel the need to resolve ICly in ways that are also awkwardy and doubly-contradictory, rather then suspending their belief like every other group of MMO roleplayers have learned to do as a habit. Such as claiming CONCORD can shut down any capsule they want instantly (why wouldn't they do that to the people murdering them in nullsec?) when license aren't paid for, or that Capsules are rigged not to be able to see civilian vessels, except for when they sometimes can?

Also, SCC, a division of CONCORD, controls all wallet and market transactions. Why don't they shut down all market transactions from pirate stations?

[Tamiroth]

Everything needs an IC explanation, including the russians, but they don't have to be *Actual* Russians. Its generally assumed that language in EVE is not actual modern language, anyways.

Russians = Deteis diaspora from a number of backwater planets in the State that adopted one of their archaic dialects as means of communication, exactly because it confuses the translator. They stick together mafia style, like many other diasporas. Russian in local = ancient Deteis (Arabic = ancient Ni-Kunni, chinese = ancient Jin-Mei, etc.) Here, IC problem is no more.  At least, that's how I deal with it.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

At least, that's how I deal with it.

Therein lies the problem. When everyone comes up with their own internal logic to deal with these issues, and tries to use them in roleplay...

[Ché Biko]

It doesn't have to cause problems. Although the language example above could cause problems when used in RP, you can come up with logic more suitable for RP use, as long as you make it an hypothesis of your character without claiming it to be fact.

But yeah, sometimes, like when some npc organization does something strange, it can be better to just shrug and realize you don't know everything, like the things going on behind the curtains. Often things only make sense when you've got all the puzzle pieces, and I doubt thats the case a lot.

[Aedre Lafisques]

We're all going to be coming at this from different places, but I personally find EVE really easy to treat as IC all the time. Not everything works, but I have to strain way less than anything else I've played, and I was willing to suspend disbelief -then-. The fact I have to suspend so rarely, like in the case of discussing Russians (laugh) I find it hardly a bump in the road. It's no different than glossing a really new player until he gets the hang of it. The small stuff breaks immersion here and there but its great that gameplay and posting IS our lives. That the HUD is real, that some effort is made to help us gloss mechanic changes, even if ultimately imperfect. It's just a conversation or two anyway, and helps the game setting feel like it moves and changes even when there's not much lie content. It's amusing at least to chat about changes or grump about them immersively. I don't think I'd be held to my actions and positions as much in another game without a lot more posturing. In eve, looking up personal details to inform aggressive actions is something even non-rpers do. That's pretty fantastic. The gray zone here is not perfect, but its pretty close for a game that actually has some content and unreal setting. The only thing more immersive is something like Ingress, I think.

[Esna Pitoojee]

The business about CONCORD being able to shut us down and regulate capsuleer operations and sensors remotely (and associated discussions) is something Falcon said in response to questions about why we can't see stuff.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

The business about CONCORD being able to shut us down and regulate capsuleer operations and sensors remotely (and associated discussions) is something Falcon said in response to questions about why we can't see stuff.

Falcon is also the guy who made the "All Capsuleers have the same builds because ~cloning~" remark, despite it kinda contradicting the already established cloning lore, so I am inclined to take what he says with a few grains of salt, especially since that makes... Well, zero sense.

I wish people wouldn't take every casual dev remark as gospel, by the way. In my opinion, until something is properly published in a chronicle or article, it's fluff.

[Mizhara]

I think Falcon makes up a lot of shit on the fly, not quite thinking it through. Hell, when he was a PC, his char was gargantuan.

Char size is simply one of those things we have to accept is a game mechanic hurr durr that doesn't translate well into IC.

[Lyn Farel]

I have a problem with the HUD behind real as well. It would look so prehistoric and out of place in the setting that... what ? Everything is instantly transmitted by the sheer power of the mind and the senses, and pod pilots suddenly use a basic UI designed for mouse and keyboard ?

What.

We as players can't do as they do ofc, but trying to find reasons and explanations for that is ludicrous.

Also, I have to admit that the scale of the immersion breaking stuff in other MMOs is often a lot more outrageous than in Eve, where it's at least hidden or veiled, even if done poorly. The biggest immersion killer to me in every other MMO has always been seeing lolpeople running all around like crazy for no apparent reason. Doing lolquests or just bunny hopping around.

Everything needs an IC explanation, including the russians, but they don't have to be *Actual* Russians. Its generally assumed that language in EVE is not actual modern language, anyways.

Russians = Deteis diaspora from a number of backwater planets in the State that adopted one of their archaic dialects as means of communication, exactly because it confuses the translator. They stick together mafia style, like many other diasporas. Russian in local = ancient Deteis (Arabic = ancient Ni-Kunni, chinese = ancient Jin-Mei, etc.) Here, IC problem is no more.  At least, that's how I deal with it.

I am not sure that I would like very much to see RL languages coming back as they are now as the language of X or Y faction... Like it was the case for lolfrench gallente. I never really liked the trope. I rather prefer the few inspirations and mythological names taken here and there as possible remnants of whatever mystical era... We are all speaking english (or kindof), which has absolutely no basis since everyone is supposed to speak his native language with the use of universal translators... And behold, all Amarrians played by russians should now be deteis... or arabic IRL ?

[Tamiroth]

I am not sure that I would like very much to see RL languages coming back as they are now as the language of X or Y faction... Like it was the case for lolfrench gallente. I never really liked the trope. I rather prefer the few inspirations and mythological names taken here and there as possible remnants of whatever mystical era... We are all speaking english (or kindof), which has absolutely no basis since everyone is supposed to speak his native language with the use of universal translators... And behold, all Amarrians played by russians should now be deteis... or arabic IRL ?

Of course, all actual RL languages in EVE have died out millennia ago. You'd probably find an occasional core Indo-European or Finno-Ugric or Semitic element here and there (Pator, Matar, etc.) but hardly more. You are tryng to see a hard rule where there is actually a very fuzzy attempt at suspension of disbelief. Or a semblance of it.

  Let's say, for example, that there is a big independent nullsec corporation formed from the diaspora of the same region. They begin to use some obscure archaic local dialect that most of them know, because commonly available translator software doesn't get it. What they speak from the IC pont of view is not exactly the old Russian language that existed at some point, but something else that 1) common translators don't work with, 2) there are readily available third-party software and people who know it, so it isn't Navajo or Sumerian-level hard.   

  At some point, this entity, if successful, naturally begins to attract the capsuleers of all other races, and eventually some of them rise to the top of the food chain, but even a decade later the tradition to see each other as kinsmen and usage of the founders' dialect at comms stay.

  Voila, "Russians".

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

As to languages, remember that this is english just 600 years ago.

A cook they hadde with hem for the nones
To boille the chiknes with the marybones,
And poudre-marchant tart and galyngale.
Wel koude he knowe a draughte of londoun ale.
He koude rooste, and sethe, and broille, and frye,
Maken mortreux, and wel bake a pye.
But greet harm was it, as it thoughte me,
That on his shyne a mormal hadde he.
For blankmanger, that made he with the beste.

[Lyn Farel]

I am not sure that I would like very much to see RL languages coming back as they are now as the language of X or Y faction... Like it was the case for lolfrench gallente. I never really liked the trope. I rather prefer the few inspirations and mythological names taken here and there as possible remnants of whatever mystical era... We are all speaking english (or kindof), which has absolutely no basis since everyone is supposed to speak his native language with the use of universal translators... And behold, all Amarrians played by russians should now be deteis... or arabic IRL ?

Of course, all actual RL languages in EVE have died out millennia ago. You'd probably find an occasional core Indo-European or Finno-Ugric or Semitic element here and there (Pator, Matar, etc.) but hardly more. You are tryng to see a hard rule where there is actually a very fuzzy attempt at suspension of disbelief. Or a semblance of it.

  Let's say, for example, that there is a big independent nullsec corporation formed from the diaspora of the same region. They begin to use some obscure archaic local dialect that most of them know, because commonly available translator software doesn't get it. What they speak from the IC pont of view is not exactly the old Russian language that existed at some point, but something else that 1) common translators don't work with, 2) there are readily available third-party software and people who know it, so it isn't Navajo or Sumerian-level hard.   

  At some point, this entity, if successful, naturally begins to attract the capsuleers of all other races, and eventually some of them rise to the top of the food chain, but even a decade later the tradition to see each other as kinsmen and usage of the founders' dialect at comms stay.

  Voila, "Russians".

Ah, you meant it like that? I see. 

But yeah, in any case, hearing a RL language considered IC at its fullest (not just for mythological names) tends to break suspension of disbelief for me.