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[Louella Dougans]

the missions where minmatar fleets are dropping bio weapons onto slave populations also predate the emyprean age.

[Mizhara]

I miss those missions. I should make an Amarrian missioning alt just to do them again.

[Louella Dougans]

also predating the empyrean age, and still in the mission pool, are the missions that are all "tensions between X and Y factions are high, and there is a possibility that war may break out".

X and Y being say Caldari and Gallente. They've been at war for 6 years, and those missions have never been edited or pulled.

pve content consistency is hard. Missions don't get updated.

Not least because, apparently, according to some devposts and devquotes, until very, very recently, mission deadspace complexes were constructed by hand, one at a time, using devspawning tools, in a version of the client, using the POS structure placement code.

 

[Arista Shahni]

POS CODE?!

* Arista Shahni evacuates the thread.

[Demion Samenel]

Not least because, apparently, according to some devposts and devquotes, until very, very recently, mission deadspace complexes were constructed by hand, one at a time, using devspawning tools, in a version of the client, using the POS structure placement code.

This was also the general feeling at the PVE roundtable last Fanfest and some nightly discussions with Devs, they cant make new content easily as they need to make new NPC one by on, so the lack of tools is what stops them to make new content. They are however working on it to change the tools used, when that is implemented we might see some new changes. 

[Louella Dougans]

what it does mean though, is that that one mission, where there's a wrecked Apocalypse, in pieces, with the bow and stern sections separated by a short distance, and there are a few dozen frozen corpses in the gap, was created by someone who placed those frozen corpses one by one, by hand.

 

[Gaven Lok ri]

The missions that predate FW really do have some interesting things.

It is pretty clear, for example, that the original plan for FW was going to be an escalation in Ammatar space over a whole set of issues surrounding the Kenobanala system. They had everything set up for a proxy war between the Matari, supported by the Gallente, and the Ammatar, supported by Amarr and Caldari.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

The missions that predate FW really do have some interesting things.

It is pretty clear, for example, that the original plan for FW was going to be an escalation in Ammatar space over a whole set of issues surrounding the Kenobanala system. They had everything set up for a proxy war between the Matari, supported by the Gallente, and the Ammatar, supported by Amarr and Caldari.

Pity they didn't go with that option. It would've been far more interesting. Mind you with things as they are Mandate space is available for a bit of unrestricted high-sec skirmishing between the militias. Not to mention being a logical place for any prisoner exchanges & suchlike.

[Lyn Farel]

3 out of the 4 factions had enormous interests in the Mandate : the Empire because it's its protectorate and a big symbol in itself, the Minmatar because it's the exact contrary for them and other obvious reasons, and the Caldari because they were renting to the Ammatar the rich ore deposits on the border zone to make huge profits, thus directly having to defend themselves against freedom fighters and Matari border raids while aggressively expanding their assets on contested blurred areas that were claimed by republic forces.

For the Gallente, it would have needed a bit more story weaving to make them come here too, but nothing too difficult since it's the gallente anyway.

Then they decided to turn the Nefantar leaders into Minmatar saints and thus pretty much spoiling the whole plot here.

[Samira Kernher]

Then they decided to turn the Nefantar leaders into Minmatar saints and thus pretty much spoiling the whole plot here.

They backtracked quite a bit on that in Source, thankfully, though unfortunately most of the damage has already been done.

[Lyn Farel]

What does Source says out of curiosity ? I don't have it (I hate them for selling exclusive lore, what's the point of their public wiki ?)..

[Samira Kernher]

What does Source says out of curiosity ? I don't have it (I hate them for selling exclusive lore, what's the point of their public wiki ?)..

It focuses back on the original idea that the Nefantar sold out the Minmatar to save their own hides. The Starkmanir thing only happened after the events of Arzad convinced a relative few to have a change of heart.

[spoiler]

As one of the largest tribes, the Nefantar had been hit hard by the raids, and their leadership debated leaving Matar for their colony world of Hjoramold. In the end, the Nefantar chief decided against the move, despite strong support for it among influential families and clan leaders. The debate's aftermath left bitter divisions within the tribe, and the acrimony would lead many of the most powerful members of the Nefantar tribe to look to the protection of their own families at the expense of others. The next time Amarr raiders came to Matar, they encountered no resistance in areas controlled by certain Nefantar families. The Amarr quickly understood that these members of the Nefantar elite were willing to work with them in exchange for immunity from the raids for their own families. Over time the collaboration of the Nefantar with the Amarr became widespread across Matar, as the benefits of betrayal of their fellow Matari became clear.

After a century of Amarr raiding, the Nefantar had become the effective rulers of what remained of the Minmatar people. Any open challengers to their control would quickly find themselves in the next quota of slaves handed over to the raiding parties. The Nefantar had already begun to ape their Amarr masters, abandoning many tribal ways and adopting an aristocratic hierarchy.

...

The Nefantar, as the Ammatar, enjoyed a very privileged relationship with their Amarr rulers and considerable autonomy. Many high-ranking Ammatar became slaveholders, and the use of space vessels was granted them. Even so, the Nefantar were as shocked as anyone by the annihilation of Starkman Prime. Perhaps even more so. The Starkmanir, afterall, had been almost as privileged as the Nefantar, and the two tribes had maintained links even after their respective migrations away from Matar. Some of the Nefantar elites became convinced that a great crime had been carried out and were determined to save what was left of the Starkmanir. From this time on, these Nefantar families covertly gathered to them as many Starkmanir as they could and, under the guides of establishing slave colonies, placed them in areas controlled by the Nefantar.

[/spoiler]

So the largescale betrayal happened and the Mandate was established long before the Starkmanir issue. The Nefantar were certifiably collaborators. The Mandate wasn't created to protect the Starkmanir, just a few Mandate leaders later decided to go rogue after Arzad.

[Lyn Farel]

That sure sounds better that way.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

That sure sounds better that way.

Certainly more believable. I guess they must have been very canny political operators to have one of their own as governor at the time of the Elder Fleet raid.

[Lithium Flower]

What happens in game you can't ignore in RP.