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Author Topic: "This is EVE"  (Read 8482 times)

Lyn Farel

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #45 on: 23 Nov 2014, 09:35 »

You're talking to someone running more industry alts than combat characters. You have an odd way of attributing characteristics to people that are flagrantly false.

You said the experience was "too brutal" for these people. That means they don't fit in, in Eve. This means they don't have the guts for it. They are part of the demographic that does not fit in and should find another game that's more suitable to them. Eve holds the position it does because it is brutal. It's dangerous. It's cutthroat. It has consequences for fucking up. It requires the stamina and patience to prepare, work for your assets and capabilities. These are all good things and the people lacking the prerequisite mentality and capacity to handle them simply aren't who the game is made for.

If you changed the game to accommodate these people, you'd quite literally break Eve.

And yet you are exactly the kind that has a very hotheaded approach to the game. The industry excuse is a fallacy in itself, one doesn't exclude the other.

I said too brutal as a first death experience. There are many ways to get the first death experience in eve, and for a novice player, it can take a pretty impressive dimension. Everyone has trembled under adrenaline the first time his ship got blown up for the first time, and even if that was actually T1 frigates that cost absolutely naugh, it's something that more experienced players tend to forget.

And then you have different people, all with different expectations of the game, and different way of feeling and resenting the game. I can take someone like you or Sid that will jump happily into battle in berserk mode and have a lot of fun that way, which also let's be honest, requires some skill and habit, and I can also take countless people I have met in lowsec, most of them industrialists or just jack of all trade kindof people, pretty casual in their approach, and they were definitely not refusing to do pvp or to defend themselves, otherwise they would not live in lowsec to begin with.

And yet, as pvp was not their primary facet ingame, they also tended not to like the frantic approach that could come with some pvpers. As a matter of fact, it was not a matter of guts more than a matter of personal fun.

So yes, they needed to get experienced with the thing, and to used to the thing. I don't know personally how I would have taken being jumped into a huge fleet battle and ganked by an enemy fleet of 20 players in my little tacking frigate that I didn't even know how to use to begin with. For my first time in pvp and my first death, I mean. So yes, I put myself in the shoes of a new players and that kind of experience can be 'traumatic', not in the psychological way, but in the way that you will just think "this game sucks".

You know what ? I agree with you on the fact that in every game, FPS or other games, you will tend to get your ass handed to you pretty quick in your first matches. It's also why some games have introduced a match making system to limit the problem of a novice fighting against the first ranked player of the leaderboards. Well, it's a different story in Eve, of course, but the underlying issue remains the same : losing can be fun, but losing without even understanding what happened, and moreover, getting your first hard labored ship getting shred to pieces as a result is pretty discouraging, I think, except for a handful of players.

So, my apologies if I thought you were actually implying said handful of players are the only ones to deserve Eve.


Edit : also, nobody asked to change the game.  :|
« Last Edit: 23 Nov 2014, 09:40 by Lyn Farel »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #46 on: 23 Nov 2014, 10:30 »

Something like what, 90% of trial accounts are never converted to paying?

Arena/accessable e-sports is a way to shore that up a bit, but they won't go there
« Last Edit: 23 Nov 2014, 10:52 by Silas Vitalia »
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Anyanka Funk

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #47 on: 23 Nov 2014, 15:03 »

This trailer has literally caused my dad to start playing Eve, so they must be doing something right.

Who is your dad's toon? Is he into roleplaying?  :D
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Jikahr

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #48 on: 23 Nov 2014, 15:31 »

Something like what, 90% of trial accounts are never converted to paying?

Arena/accessable e-sports is a way to shore that up a bit, but they won't go there

I think something like a high sec arena with non lethal E-sports would be a helpful addition as well. It would be something like a 'kiddie pool' for new players to ease their way into combat. I don't know why CCP is against it. Perhaps they fear it would make EVE more like WOW, or the other games they want to distinguish themselves from?

These arena bloodsports are mentioned in the prime fiction. The Caldari in particular seem fond of them. Yet like many of the NPC corporations, these seem to be something mentioned as a background for roleplayers rather than players can get involved in.

I wonder if the dualling mechanism could be changed so that two players could engage each other in combat without losing their ships or pods, but only in a high sec arena? This would encourage new players to test fits and develop their skills without risk. All fighters practice through non lethal sparring with one another. Predatory animals learn their skills through playful fighting with one another. Why is EVE combat like a baby seal getting clubbed over the head?
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #49 on: 23 Nov 2014, 16:18 »

Ideally I'd like CCP to set up an in game 'arena' not unlike the alliance tournament but automated and regulated. A A league that runs all year and culminates in tournaments.

You'd still be using your own ships and your own gear, and the arena could auto-detect illegal fits/whatever, and separated for ship classes and group play

Something like the following:

1v1 for small/med/large ships
2v2 for small/ med/ large ships

5v5 ship class restricted
5v5 max points like alliance tournament
10v10 ship class restricted
10v10 like alliance tournament

Basically make it wide and easy and people can jump in at all skill levels, with the arena tracking performance and ladder matches all year

It'd take a lot of work to get going but eve's pvp with all the rock/paper/scissor combos and fittings is perfect for this sort of environment

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Jikahr

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #50 on: 23 Nov 2014, 16:57 »

Ideally I'd like CCP to set up an in game 'arena' not unlike the alliance tournament but automated and regulated. A A league that runs all year and culminates in tournaments.

You'd still be using your own ships and your own gear, and the arena could auto-detect illegal fits/whatever, and separated for ship classes and group play

Something like the following:

1v1 for small/med/large ships
2v2 for small/ med/ large ships

5v5 ship class restricted
5v5 max points like alliance tournament
10v10 ship class restricted
10v10 like alliance tournament

Basically make it wide and easy and people can jump in at all skill levels, with the arena tracking performance and ladder matches all year

It'd take a lot of work to get going but eve's pvp with all the rock/paper/scissor combos and fittings is perfect for this sort of environment

Yes. I myself would make it like a professional sport though, with the possibility of placing bets and a posted score.
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Mizhara

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #51 on: 23 Nov 2014, 17:06 »

EOH runs betting services on pretty much all tournaments.
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Havohej

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #52 on: 24 Nov 2014, 06:25 »

I love this trailer.  Got tingles.
Was it the same kind of tingles as that one time I blapped you with my Ishtar?  Or different tingles?

* Havohej flees! 
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This is a forum on steroids tbh. The rate at which content worth reading is being generated could get you pregnant.

Milo Caman

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #53 on: 24 Nov 2014, 07:13 »

I love this trailer.  Got tingles.
Was it the same kind of tingles as that one time I blapped you with my Ishtar?  Or different tingles?

* Havohej flees! 

Killboards are still green bro
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Havohej

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #54 on: 24 Nov 2014, 07:25 »

I love this trailer.  Got tingles.
Was it the same kind of tingles as that one time I blapped you with my Ishtar?  Or different tingles?

* Havohej flees! 

Killboards are still green bro
m8 we weren't even in that fight, I just whored a couple kms :p

Ask Utsu why we troll each other.  Don't take it as an affront to your corp, that's my homie :)
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This is a forum on steroids tbh. The rate at which content worth reading is being generated could get you pregnant.

Utsukushi Shi

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #55 on: 24 Nov 2014, 11:23 »

Between you and Anslo I pretty much advocate going to Huola every time we are in fleet.... :p
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #56 on: 24 Nov 2014, 11:46 »

Ask Utsu why we troll each other.

Because when you say his name over and over really quickly, his character's ass shakes like it's sitting on a woofer.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Esna Pitoojee

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #57 on: 24 Nov 2014, 12:16 »

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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Jikahr

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #58 on: 24 Nov 2014, 12:58 »

Quote
I said too brutal as a first death experience. There are many ways to get the first death experience in eve, and for a novice player, it can take a pretty impressive dimension. Everyone has trembled under adrenaline the first time his ship got blown up for the first time, and even if that was actually T1 frigates that cost absolutely naugh, it's something that more experienced players tend to forget.

And then you have different people, all with different expectations of the game, and different way of feeling and resenting the game. I can take someone like you or Sid that will jump happily into battle in berserk mode and have a lot of fun that way, which also let's be honest, requires some skill and habit, and I can also take countless people I have met in lowsec, most of them industrialists or just jack of all trade kindof people, pretty casual in their approach, and they were definitely not refusing to do pvp or to defend themselves, otherwise they would not live in lowsec to begin with.

And yet, as pvp was not their primary facet ingame, they also tended not to like the frantic approach that could come with some pvpers. As a matter of fact, it was not a matter of guts more than a matter of personal fun.

My first personal death experience in EVE was pretty disappointing.

I decided to go into low sec in my destroyer. I knew low sec was dangerous, but I thought I would give it a try. I was ratting in the belts when I went into structure. Then a player pirate showed up on grid. I knew enough to warp away. I also learned from YouTube that the best evasion technique was to warp to the sun.  :roll: No one ever thinks of warping to the sun. I warped to the sun, ship still on fire, and the player pirate followed me. He was able to warp scram me and of course easily popped my ship. Combat over.

I found the whole thing really disappointing. I had agonized for a week over which of the four races to choose, and the Amarrians seemed like the most interesting from a role-playing perspective. I got into the game and was told 'No one really role-plays in EVE'. :bash: I get blown up in low sec by another Amarrian who says....absolutely nothing to me about the reason why he blew up my ship. I was hoping he was going to call me a Heretic or something. However there was no explanation, and it seemed like no chance of escape. It was like a baby seal getting clubbed over the head.

I had been thinking how a cat, the greatest hunter in the animal kingdom, releases their prey nine times and catches it again on the tenth. There doesn't seem to be that in EVE combat. Combat is either freeze or fry. The lack of dialogue between target and adversary, although strategically sound, makes combat deadly dull. I really do prefer it when someone says 'Death to Amarr!' or asks me for a ransom. Those instances are quite rare though.

It also happens to be yet another thing that Star Citizen picked up on. Ship hails. You will see them in practically every science fiction film ever made. Diplomacy is tried first, then weapons. Even when the enemy is thoroughly hostile and despicable, we get to see them laugh and sneer before releasing their photon torpedoes. We get a sense about who the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, Stormtroopers, etc. are because we are able to exchange insults before gunfire.

Warp scramblers are a form of E-war. Other forms of E-war are chance based. Would it be 'game breaking' if warp scramblers and webbifiers were also more chance based?

Oh, and in the interests of me staying on topic, I wanted to post that Russian parody of 'I was there' that I really liked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyPyh9Qtawk
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Merdaneth

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Re: "This is EVE"
« Reply #59 on: 24 Nov 2014, 13:48 »

I had been thinking how a cat, the greatest hunter in the animal kingdom, releases their prey nine times and catches it again on the tenth. There doesn't seem to be that in EVE combat. Combat is either freeze or fry. The lack of dialogue between target and adversary, although strategically sound, makes combat deadly dull. I really do prefer it when someone says 'Death to Amarr!' or asks me for a ransom. Those instances are quite rare though.

I have actual conversations in local with more than 50% of the people I fight. Most of them IC too.

Just remember to make the first (conversational) move yourself. Maybe the guy in your example was the same thing (about the lack of dialogue) about you. Combat is only personal if *you* make it personal.
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