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[Samira Kernher]

I think part of the disconnect between myself and others is the 'go out into space and RP' perspective. That has never been my primary style of RP - in any setting I have roleplayed in. I have always been an interpersonal roleplayer. Politics, friendships, and other elements along those lines. That style of roleplayer used to be able to thrive in EVE but does not seem to be able to anymore.

I disagree that it cannot. That kind of roleplay is my primary in-game activity. Space activities are pretty far secondary for me right now due to burnout. I appreciate space activities a method of backing up my actual character, rather than as the full and complete avenue for exploring her character. Only rarely have in space issues had serious enough impact to cause major character development (most recently being the podding by Nauplius), most of Sami's development has come from straight conversational RP.

It's just that that development happens in private, between friends (term used loosely). Like I said, I see things like IGS and Summit as springboards rather than central RP mediums in their own right. They're fun for casual RP, but the real depth comes from the RP in close personal settings.

Space activities are important for realizing the character's actions as a capsuleer, and this is a part of RPing in the EVE universe. But I don't think most people here believe that interpersonal relations are not important. They are the most important for me, and comprise 90% of my in-game activities.

[Jace]

Edit: I would like to retroactively apologize for being a dickhead below.

I have to disagree with your notion of the IGS being the 'tavern.' It does not at all serve that function. It is for sneering, shaming, peacocking, cynicism. Not for meeting people, not for interesting character interaction. And as far as corps? There is none for Caldari unless you want to head to null. There is none for Gallente unless you want to join the shell that Soter left, who they themselves admit they don't really RP anymore. There is only one pirate RP corp left in existence not including Coreli who is also 'RP-light' (read: none). And I suppose not including Blood Raiders/Sabik. I don't know much about that RP circle.

So the options that remain? Events. Everyone runs them on Saturdays which are unavailable to me every single week. And perhaps I have had bad luck with events the last year, but most of them that I have been to have also been the peacocking and cynicism of the IGS. Just in-person. I could open my own venue, but I do not have the time everyday to be logged in and moderating it and encouraging activity in it. The only active venues left are member-only ones, for the most part. Or they are the sort that only make sense for very specific characters to attend - to the point that it is virtually member-only.

So the solution to this is become a salesperson? Spam the IGS until everyone knows my name and thus by sheer odds someone will continue interaction outside of the IGS? Sorry, not going to do that. IGS is not the tavern of EVE. There isn't one, nor are there groups of players to join for many types of characters. Do I have the time to start my own corp and actively build it into something? No, I don't have the time for that. If I did, I would. Not that I think it would amount to anything in the current EVE atmosphere, but I would try it if I had the time.

So yes, I suppose this comes down to another 'poor me the people I know have left EVE' thread or 'I'm sick and tried of interacting with the same couple attention magnets' thread. And I realize that nothing I am saying is productive and thus it probably should not be said at all. But I think part of me thinks this is the way people want it and I just don't understand why.

Edit: And about other RP communities also complaining about it being dead like this. That is not my experience. In other settings I have been a part of the complaints are typically that 'good' RP is dying. Not that RP in its totality is dying. So yes, maybe someone might have to 'slum it.' But it's still an option. For me the other settings themselves became unbearable. I just have become utterly sick of fantasy settings. It wasn't the RP that made me leave, it was lack of interest in the content.

[Samira Kernher]

I have to disagree with your notion of the IGS being the 'tavern.' It does not at all serve that function. It is for sneering, shaming, peacocking, cynicism. Not for meeting people, not for interesting character interaction.

If that's how you want to view it. I've had a few posts spiral off into interesting discussions over mail or in-game conversation, and I've found several threads very interesting to participate in in their own right (even if that's the minority).

Sneering, shaming, peacocking, and cynicism happen everywhere. If that's all you want to see then that's all you will see. *shrugs*

So the solution to this is become a salesperson? Spam the IGS until everyone knows my name and thus by sheer odds someone will continue interaction outside of the IGS?

Actually, the suggestion was to watch the IGS, find an interesting person/post, and strike up an interaction outside the IGS. Engaging with someone rather than hoping someone will latch on to you.

Sorry, not going to do that. IGS is not the tavern of EVE.

It is the public melting pot to which many different characters engage. That's the narrative purpose of the tavern setting--bringing disparate characters together into a common location from which plots and arcs can begin. The Summit functions in similar capacity, but it is limited by timezones and IRL scheduling and a tendency towards idle banter (where the IGS, by virtue of being a forum medium, encourages lengthy diatribes on topics of character interest, which therefore usually gives a bit more exposure to the character's internal beliefs).

And frankly, I get more meaningful interaction on the IGS than I have in traditional RP taverns. But then I've always hated tavern RP.

But I think part of me thinks this is the way people want it and I just don't understand why.

Honestly Jace, a part of me is thinking that this is the way you want it to be. I mean, you always talk about how you want more public random RP instead of private RP, yet you seem to discount a significant portion of the public random RP that EVE offers (IGS). I don't understand that.

Edit: And about other RP communities also complaining about it being dead like this. That is not my experience. In other settings I have been a part of the complaints are typically that 'good' RP is dying. Not that RP in its totality is dying.

Then perhaps I have the "luck" of going from dying RP community to dying RP community, because I always tend to find myself in RP communities that are sure that they are in their twilight days (year after year). Random RP is the thing that always goes first, leaving behind a handful of guilds filling a few niches that not everyone is interested in but everyone is part of anyway. Until the next expansion/content patch.

[Morwen Lagann]

Trigger warning: Blunt Morwen post ahead.

I'm seeing a whole lot of complaining and not a lot of solution-offering, Jace. I like you, man, but you're coming across to me as "I want this, this and this but I don't want to do anything for it and I want it now".

So weekend events don't work for your schedule. They work for most other people across a multitude of timezones, which is why they frequently get scheduled that way. Sucks to be you, I guess, but tell me exactly where this is stopping you from organizing something during the week when you supposedly ARE available? Most weeknights (USTZ) are pretty quiet because nobody is starting anything. I just told CC this earlier in a mail: if people want activity they need to get up off their asses and start something, anything, and say they're doing it. People are bored but they also are looking for things to do. If you build it they will fucking come. (Buckets. Pun intended.)

Certain inputs tend to result in certain outputs. This is why the Summit is frequently full of idle banter when it is active: people usually put in things for which the appropriate response is idle banter, and that is exactly what they get. But when people put in serious stuff, it can result in a very long, intricate and meaningful discussions that last for hours with multiple people chiming in and participating. It's not because there's a lack of things to RP about, it's because people often don't feel like making the effort to provide a 'prompt' that facilitates thoughtful conversations.

If you want to kickstart something, say in the Summit or OOC (or both) that you're going to go to X channel for drinks or whatever and ask if people are interested in tagging along. Usually people will respond positively and show up. Hell, the people who IDLE in those channels will probably participate once they see activity. It has ALWAYS been like that, even when I started out RPing. People idle because they want to see where there's activity and then make a decision to participate. Generate some fucking activity, say what you're doing and where, and people will be likely to show up. It is LITERALLY that fucking simple most of the time.

If you don't want to make the effort to start/plan something when you're around and have time, and would rather spend that time pissing and moaning about how terrible and dead it all is, fine. But please don't expect any sympathy or commiserations in the meantime. It's not fair to those of us who actually do try to generate content for other people, whether it is in chat channels or in space.

[Jace]

As I said a couple times, I am aware that this is all coming across as whining. I shouldn't have even let the thread go down this road in the first place. Rant posts are never a good idea.

But yes, it is what it is. I need to accept that. Giving myself an hour to think about it, I think the reason why these kind of posts always come with criticism but not solutions is that we do not think there is a likely solution - these posts happen when the poster thinks the RP scene is beyond salvageability. We do not think it is a community that is able to be what we want it to, so all that comes out is toxic, useless frustration. There is no point in rants like that. I would go back and period all my posts out, but in this case I think that might be a bit of a dick move.

I just need to look at my signature more.

[Louella Dougans]

I just need to look at my signature more.

 

[Jace]

I just need to look at my signature more.

 

All I meant by that is that I find the little guy adorable and he can put me in a slightly better mood.

[Arista Shahni]

we shall all watch together



edit: wait omg THAT MEANS HES BURNING SAVE HIIIIIM

[Jace]

I would also like to apologize for attacking the community instead of merely venting my frustrations. There is a fine line between the two and I easily crossed it. I know some people are still very much fulfilled by the EVE RP community and I wish them all the best. To attack the community when others are enjoying it can come across as if you are attacking their enjoyment, as if they are somehow 'doing it wrong.' That obviously is not the case. I am usually fairly good at being stoic about these sort of things, but I suppose everyone makes a slip from time to time. I hope everyone who is enjoying themselves continues to do so without having to deal with others such as me when we snap.

[Arista Shahni]

:Piles on the guilt: Shit man, I said I'd even pay 14.99USD so Jared was subbed so you could RP with that alt.

IDK, omg, think of a reason, ANY REASON, to talk to Ari with Jace then. Drop an evemail. start the process.  IDC.  Just don't turn into a peanut gallery armchair roleplayer who bitches about how miserable shit is that they're not even involved in anymore. 

[Jace]

:Piles on the guilt: Shit man, I said I'd even pay 14.99USD so Jared was subbed so you could RP with that alt.

IDK, omg, think of a reason, ANY REASON, to talk to Ari with Jace then. Drop an evemail. start the process.  IDC.  Just don't turn into a peanut gallery armchair roleplayer who bitches about how miserable shit is that they're not even involved in anymore.

Nah, I will not turn into that. This was my dickhead vent thread and it is out of my system. I do not know if I will stick with my sub or not, but either way I will still have lore discussions with people and such things on Backstage instead of becoming one of the bitters that just comes back here to try to present themselves as better than everyone else for leaving or some such nonsense. It is possible to leave and still be a productive member, as Silas has shown everyone.

Edit: I also think that part of my issue might be that I may be done with roleplaying in general. It has sort of become a default goal of mine in games, but even when I have found it I do not recall particularly enjoying it the last couple of years. Maybe it is just time for a different phase of my gaming life. In the little time I have to play games, I find myself playing racing games and other such things that are complete genre jumps. If I am in a creative mood I find myself writing rather than wanting to seek out roleplaying.

[Samira Kernher]

Edit: I also think that part of my issue might be that I may be done with roleplaying in general. It has sort of become a default goal of mine in games, but even when I have found it I do not recall particularly enjoying it the last couple of years. Maybe it is just time for a different phase of my gaming life. In the little time I have to play games, I find myself playing racing games and other such things that are complete genre jumps. If I am in a creative mood I find myself writing rather than wanting to seek out roleplaying.

I know the feeling and have been there myself before.

At least for me, going on break for a few months/year or two and just focusing on non-RP activities was enough to rebuild that interest. Sometimes that's really rather necessary to revitalize our interest in things we previously enjoyed.

And honestly if you find more interest in writing then that's honestly probably better anyway, because if you can kindle that it leaves you with the potential of producing things that you can actually sell. I always find myself wanting to write but then dropping back to roleplaying because I really enjoy the spontaneousness of other people taking the roles of other characters.


And don't worry about it, no need to apologize. Everyone needs to vent. I'd be lying if I said I haven't done the same, often about the same subject despite what I've said in this thread, many times over, though usually to individual people rather than on forums. It helps to get it out of your system; catharsis and all that.

[Vizage]

If I may say something as a relatively new role player to the Eve-scape (or at least one that only needs to look back to recent memory,) I'm finding that like as most people have pointed out already that there is a whole lot of talking about Rp or lack thereof instead of constructive attempts to generate actual Rp. This however is only part of the problem in my mind. Apathetic veterans aside we have a few other serious (at least to me) problems.

First and foremost; I disagree with the notion that this community is both small and shrinking, coming from other Rp communities from other games I can easily say Eve has one of the largest group proclaimed role players (regardless of activity.) Secondly while of course these could be alts I've counted no less than 5 new faces in the past weeks, some who have already gotten into the more private/meaningful Rp channels (like LSB/Noir/etc. ) I feel like these newcomers are being discounted among the departure of some of the heavyweight veterans. These newcomers actually bring  me to my final point.

It's plain insanity to act like what should be one large meshed community has been split into two.  Blame aside, and all that nonsense, one sides official capacity is giving it a substantial edge in being the landing point for many new role players.  Love it or hate it, the fact is simply that new players are being exposed to half the community much of the time, and the only way to fix that is the properly get the information where is needs to be. The ISG forums for many new players is the first place we all wind up.

Some of the more resourceful will find The Summit and OOC on our ownsome, and most events are rather successful if posted on ISG, but I think more diligent use of the ISG to advertise supposed public sites like Noir/Masque & and somehow even Summit could go a very long way in breaking down the looming bar on entry for many of us.

Finally it's no secret that many RP'ers like to RP with specific other RP'ers. But if you've got particular Rp taste and can't find it anywhere, don't complain. No one likes a picky eater. Learn to cook.

[Mizhara]

Well, there's a good reason for the bittervet legions spending more time complaining than actually doing stuff. "Stuff" has already been done and it was good. Mostly. Other "stuff" was also done and it was terribad. Sometimes. Now, it's not that easy. There's very little left to do that can both be innovative and remain... well, not silly. This mostly leaves doing "stuff" that's already been done, but the second time around is never quite as good as the first. The third, fourth and fifth time it starts getting stale as fuck.

There's a fuckton of experience aggregated in the various veterans around here (I actually count myself as one of them, even though I'm winning Eve and came along later than the real old grumps) and it's starting to become very easy to recognize rehashing of old stuff or the inherent gnnerghh-that's-just-urrgh of most new ventures. There is an undeniable stagnation of both the game and the community and it's rather unavoidable when Eve moves at the current pace.

New game mechanics aren't really going to fix it. Adding a pirate militia function will be a fleeting salve upon the rash until it turns out to be no more invigorating than FW turned out to be. Same goes for just shuffling around game mechanics for warfare, fw, nullsec, w-space and what have you. They're not going to address the core of the problem, which is that character motivation and character progress relies on the universe shifting around them as much as they shift around the events of the universe.

The only real way to reinvigorate the veterans is to actually shake things up rather severely. Have the Minmatar Elders fuck off with half the Republic and ram a massive wedge between the Republic Remnant and the Federation. Have the State and Empire fall out, hell have a WAR. Huge political shift in the Empire as it shears down the middle between a new far more secular faction against slavery and the religious side, whatever. Similar things among pirates. Hell, kill off some factions/subfactions and create brand new ones.

Some major upheaval that allows older characters that have invested time and effort, been shaped and guided by New Eden, to face a new New Eden that demands action and either renewed or shifted allegiances in the new landscape that forms around these cataclysmic changes. We already have all the game mechanics for a proper sandbox. We just need to raze a few of the towers and castles we built so there's room for new battles and motivations. Take away the blankets we've covered ourselves with and gotten too comfy in to willingly shed, so we as characters are forced to go out and get new ones, probably by taking it from someone else.

This will also actually allow you to change your character and try something new without it being contrived and an obviously OOC thing to try new pastures, which is something that's always rubbed me the wrong way.

The actual difficulty for CCP is in reality rather low. Most of the work would be in writing the new PF, making it believable and new worldcrafting etc. Turn the militias into a four way battle instead of a two-way battle would take some work, but it's hardly insurmountable. Deleting a few factions and popping a few new ones in there with blank standings slates shouldn't exactly be too daunting either.

There's only so much that can be done by a roleplaying community when the framework that surrounds it remains rigid and stagnant, especially when the characters have been slotted nicely into a comfy niche and shifting it around frankly becomes both unrealistic and the other niches remaining the same as they've been for years anyway. Take away half the niches, create a few new ones and you'll see a roleplaying community that'll break out the heavy machinery to tear shit up and fill the craters with new content.

[Lyn Farel]

For those still continuing to say that vets do not do anything, or try not to do anything, this is just one of many examples that got no answers. Well I was not playing when I wrote that, and was really ready to try something again. How silly and naive of me.

So, maybe i'm actually doing it wrong or being too subtle every time I try to propose something, but every time I get zero, absolutely zero motivation from other people.

Be it when I was a newcomer and started my first RP corp with a friend, be it in the middle of my eve life when I started a second RP corp with the same friend, be it when I created my own channel for RP venues with barely one of two people showing up, or be it when I spent time to make room for RP 'npc' alts to help Laurentis with his Mantenault event, which incidentally proved to be rather nice even with almost no participation and ensuing things from people other than a few debates on the IGS related thread.

But more seriously, where the hell do you find those RPers ? 3 years ago it was easy to find them, there were many places and still a bunch of RP entities here and there and it was rather easy to actually reach out people. One year ago it was already hard to see anything. I honestly had no damn clue where all the RPers were. On the IGS ? Most of the time trolls or strawmen. On the Summit ? Please...

Sometimes I am not sure we speak about the same universe.

Oh well I guess i have never been a good seller and have no damn clue at social interaction.