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[Samira Kernher]

Tetrimonism it is then.

As far as blooding, or Blood raiders, I wonder what it is about them that separates them most from the Amarrian faith? Notably, they are considered heretics, not heathens (apostates), so there are probably more similarities between the two faiths than there are differences. I had interpreted the blooding to mean that the Blood Raiders took a verse of scripture literally, whereas the orthodox Amarrians interpreted the verse figuratively.

Based on what the Duchess Odelya wrote about her character, it might even be possible to have some kind of secret alliance, or at least a Non Aggression pact, between the Blood Raiders and the Tertimons. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend', so to speak.

They are quite similar yes.

Tetrimon as a whole maintain the standard Amarr philosophies, though they advocate a return to Council of Apostle era policies and Scriptures. As a whole, they believe in preserving the original Scripture. They're basically a Theology Council that has a different idea of what the canon should be (namely they don't agree with the modern TC's additions to the Scripture that gave more power to the emperor).

Sani Sabik/Blooders have a lot of variety but the key things among most of their sects are the use of blood in rituals, the belief in savants, and the belief that immortality is achievable through either physical or spiritual methods. They thus do share a lot of similarities with the orthodox faith, with the only variation being in the use of blood. Orthodox has the Chosen, Holders, Heirs, and Emperor, which are basically their version of savants, and they obviously have belief in an afterlife while also striving for physical immortality through implants. Due to the variety of beliefs in the Sani Sabik faith though, individual Sabik faithful/sects can be either very close to the orthodox, or very different from it.

So both Tetrimon and Sabik have very close ties with the orthodoxy. And some could even say they have very close ties with each other as well, since selections of the Sabik "scriptures", called the Apocrypha, are supposed pieces of Scripture that were declared non-canonical and removed. As the Tetrimonites believe in preserving the original Scriptures, it is actually quite possible for a Tetrimonite to regard the Apocryphical passages as being something that should be preserved.

[Anyanka Funk]

Regarding 1PG I believe they're just a holding corp right now. Only 10 members left in it. I think sten mattson was the last really active member and he's recently changed corps as well (to Virtus Crusade, which looks to be the successor to 1PG). So yeah, you being removed was probably just cleanup.

As far as what made Nauplius snap, it was somewhat gradual for awhile. He started out just being zealous super conservative to the point of Tetrimonism (he never actually claimed to be Tetrimon, but basically all of his pre-blooder philosophies were extremely Tetrimonic in style), then did a massive slave sacrifice inspired by the sacrifice of Molok and has gone full blooder since then. Though as Anyanka says, Nauplius isn't actually a member of the Blood Raiders, he just holds his own variant of sabik/blooder ideals.

So I'd again reiterate that Tetrimonism is probably the area to look at, as both Nauplius and Odelya, former 1PGers, maintain Tetrimonic ideals. It's a good common element. Nauplius just jumped off that right down into blooding.

Tetrimonism it is then.

As far as blooding, or Blood raiders, I wonder what it is about them that separates them most from the Amarrian faith? Notably, they are considered heretics, not heathens (apostates), so there are probably more similarities between the two faiths than there are differences. I had interpreted the blooding to mean that the Blood Raiders took a verse of scripture literally, whereas the orthodox Amarrians interpreted the verse figuratively.

Based on what the Duchess Odelya wrote about her character, it might even be possible to have some kind of secret alliance, or at least a Non Aggression pact, between the Blood Raiders and the Tertimons. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend', so to speak.

The Khanid Kingdom is close enough to Delve, and the Khanid separatists might need some back up if the Imperial Navy decides to dispense some laser fire justice. The Tertimon order can secretly provide the Covenant with slaves, goods and other 'high sec' supplies, and the Covenant can supply the order with black market goods, null sec access, and illegal drugs.

The 'left hand path' of the Blood Raiders does sound like it could be a lot of fun. Sex, drugs, Rock n' roll (and homicide and cannibalism) can be a means to spiritual awakening and enlightenment. There also seems to be a few people in the EVE forums interested in Blood Raider roleplaying (or Vampiric/ Satanic) roleplay.

Of course, roleplaying a right-hand path (right wing) fanatic would be equally fun...and in real life the two extremes often converge. In this case, they share not only geography but similar objectives.

I think both roleplaying alternatives (the left and right hand path) need to be developed more.   

Hmm, dilemma.

Can you link anywhere in the prime fiction where left or right hand path is mentioned please?

I also think you will find very developed storylines in both the Covenant and Khanid by doing their missions and interacting with their in-space agents.

The Covenant is not an alliance you can join. But there are things in the PF that do not exist in-game, like the Hematology Advancement Program,  that we can create as loyalists to that faction/alliance.

Any capsuleer can do level one Blood Raider missions. As long as you do not kill more Blood Raiders,  your standing will go up.

Che, most Blood Raiders are miners! There are level one through four Blood Raider distribution missions that require an insane amount of mining. Also, nine out of ten security storyline missions are actually distribution missions! There is only one storyline agent for the Covenant for all four levels and the mission is almost always "I need 6,000m3 Omber delivered to x, stat!". So mining Blood Raider is a thing.

Just go out and do the missions if you want to know more about a specific NPC faction,  the content is all there.

[Jikahr]

In regards to a 'Blood Raider miner'.

I have wanted to start up a Prison mining camp for a while. On the whole issue of slavery, I have often wondered just what it is that these slaves do. Historically, it would have been mining.

[Samira Kernher]

Depends on where they are.

In the Empire, slaves make up a significant portion of the working class (they are about 50% of the total Imperial population) and would fill positions you would expect from laborers you see all around you IRL. Mining yes, but also custodial work, construction, engineering, reception and customer service, restaurant waiting, and so on. More educated ones can fill positions like teaching, research and development, management, and so on.

Slavery for the Amarr (and probably as much for the kingdom) is a very broad field that touches on all areas of society.


Blooder ones however are a bit more "typical". What slaves aren't put in breeding farms are worked in mines and fields under very harsh conditions, rarely surviving longer than a few months.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#Blood_Raiders

[Jikahr]

Can you link anywhere in the prime fiction where left or right hand path is mentioned please?

I also think you will find very developed storylines in both the Covenant and Khanid by doing their missions and interacting with their in-space agents.

The Covenant is not an alliance you can join. But there are things in the PF that do not exist in-game, like the Hematology Advancement Program,  that we can create as loyalists to that faction/alliance.

Any capsuleer can do level one Blood Raider missions. As long as you do not kill more Blood Raiders,  your standing will go up.

Che, most Blood Raiders are miners! There are level one through four Blood Raider distribution missions that require an insane amount of mining. Also, nine out of ten security storyline missions are actually distribution missions! There is only one storyline agent for the Covenant for all four levels and the mission is almost always "I need 6,000m3 Omber delivered to x, stat!". So mining Blood Raider is a thing.

Just go out and do the missions if you want to know more about a specific NPC faction,  the content is all there.

There is no mention of the 'left hand, right hand' path in the prime fiction. It is something which exists in real life however.

Just because it is not mentioned, doesn't mean it does not exist. Monasteries are not mentioned specifically by name in the prime fiction either, but EVE does have religious orders and Nuns.

Mysticism isn't mentioned specifically by name either, but a school of mystic thought is mentioned in the PF.

I first learned about the 'left hand path' to enlightenment from seeing a documentary about Aliester Crowley. (It might even be a concept he made up himself). Indulgence instead of abstinence, vengeance instead of tolerance, and so on.

Whether or not you choose to use the word or concept, I think it is a fitting analogy. There are two equally valid paths which lead to the same destination.

At one time school children were taught that the use of the left hand was forbidden. In Latin, the word for left hand is sinistere. In reality of course, there isn't much difference between using your left hand over your right hand, and in some cases being a lefty gives you an advantage (like baseball).

In order to find God, the Priests would tell the congregation that only the right hand path was acceptable. Starve, suffer, flagellate yourself, prostrate and humiliate yourself, and so on.

However, historically the Catholic priests and Popes (such as the Borgias) sometimes did the exact opposite of what they told their parish to do. The people starved, toiled and suffered while the Priests ate lavishly, accumulated wealth, had orgies and so on. 'Do as I say and not as I do.'

Somehow, these priests and the nobility were able to commit these abhorrent acts and still convince themselves that they were going to Heaven. One explanation is that God has created everything, both good and evil. The only way to understand God wholly though is therefore through both good and evil acts.

Aestheticism (also not mentioned by name in the PF), means denial, repression, poverty, meditation, etc. This is the 'right hand path' which is the most acceptable, traditional, and does lead to God.

Indulgence, such as the lavish orgies of the Bad Popes such as the Borgias, is not a 'sin' or 'heresy' (because the Pope says so). Instead, it would be called the 'left hand path' to God which only a few people are capable of.

[Jikahr]

Depends on where they are.

In the Empire, slaves make up a significant portion of the working class (they are about 50% of the total Imperial population) and would fill positions you would expect from laborers you see all around you IRL. Mining yes, but also custodial work, construction, engineering, reception and customer service, restaurant waiting, and so on. More educated ones can fill positions like teaching, research and development, management, and so on.

Slavery for the Amarr (and probably as much for the kingdom) is a very broad field that touches on all areas of society.


Blooder ones however are a bit more "typical". What slaves aren't put in breeding farms are worked in mines and fields under very harsh conditions, rarely surviving longer than a few months.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#Blood_Raiders

Well, I had been considering moving to Caldari state. Instead of a slave labour camp however, it would be a prison labour mining camp. Prisoners/ slaves aren't much different, except of course the slaves have never been charged or convicted of anything.

Getting people to RP slaves and prisoners might be a little tough, especially since a lot of miners just want to AFK mine, make their money and go home. I have seen a few people RP slaves and prisoners, but very few.

[Lyn Farel]

The main difference between Sabik and Amarr faith is about the main core tenet :

- Modesty vs Self empowerment.

It's all about the submission (Amarr) vs the self individualism (Sabik). If you really need a gross analogy, it's the difference between Sith and Jedi.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

'Left hand path' and 'right hand path' as two approaches to spiritual attainment have been imported to the west by the theosophic movement from Indic tantric practices. It doesn't really match up with the categories traditionally used in european spiritual/mystic/religious traditions. The terminology of 'left hand path' (originally "Vama Marga" in Sanskrit) and 'right hand path' (Sanskrit: "Dakshina Marga") thus got coloured by the traditional european dichotomies of good vs evil and right vs wrong.

I personally think that the modern use of left and right hand path is more confusing than enlightening as there is no generally accepted usage of the two terms but only a wild mixture of indic and european ideas of two different kinds of dichotomies, really:

Tantric Vama Marga and Dakshina Marga have nothing to do with a good-evil or right-wrong distinction, but rather with the distinction of a path of slow, steady and thus 'safe' attainment where one guided (by societal norms) works on freeing one's mind to conceive the higher, spiritual truths (the Dakshina Marga, conceived as male) and a path to enlightenment that is quick, forceful and explosive, consisting in tearing down violently the barriers (of societal norms) that keep one from conceiving the higher spiritual truths (the Vama Marga, conceived as female). Both ways are, from a Tantric view, aiming at 'the good'.

In buddhism the distinction is made as well, where the male and female qualities of the left/right hand paths are explicated differently: the right hand symbolises the male aspect of compassion or skilful means, and the left hand represents the female aspect of wisdom or emptiness.

So, the distinction between right (male) and left (female) path is in closer alignment with the european distinctions between vita activa (male/active) and vita contemplativa (female/receptive) and within the latter of the distinction between kataphatic/positive theology and anaphatic/negative theology. A differenceb from the Tantric ideas of left/right hand paths is, though, that in European traditions the rejection of societal norms isn't done by breaking them so much as it is done by distancing oneself from these (the latter being actually true for most non-Tantric traditions in the east as well). Then again, if you look at St. Francis, he did break quite some taboo's.

The historical cases of clergy preaching water and having wine were probly not at all expressions of that distinction in approaching the divine, but simple displays of hedonism.

All that said, I agree with how Lyn approaches the distinction between Orthodox Amarr and Sabik heresy:
Amarr orthodoxy subscribes (in theory, at least) to a dogma of 'right makes might', whereas the Sabik follow the idea of 'might makes right'. It is also in a way the 'nature vs nurture' debate. For the Amarr might is the natural outflow of 'nurture': living righteous in fear of God and being born into such an environment, which results in a positive feeedback loop. In distinction the Sabik world view sees might as something you are basically born with (or have to acquire violently by taking it in from those that have by cannibalistic ritual) and what is right is determined by those with power.

[Arista Shahni]

As an aside, I (and LOTS OF MAGICIANS) have always associated "left hand path" and right hand path" with modern magic, which by its nature does not adhere to gods, but 'Thy will is the whole of the law'  regardless of whether your playing fluffy white candle-magic or creating a moonchild.

I'm doing my best to not feel my actual beliefs being offended here by these very varied (but some being root-terms true) uses of the terms being thrown around.

As usual, Mithra saved the day without realizing it.

[Anyanka Funk]

I think The Blood Raider Covenant actually use a futuristic amalgamation of the Divine Lotus analogies. http://www.harekrsna.de/Lotus-FLower.htm With blood used to represent strength above enlightenment. In Cor Arcanus Templum Sanguine, we used a carnation instead of a lotus to represent a red thousand petal flower. Sani Sabik is translated literally to "blood seed" in the source. And the Sani Sabik purification rituals and Apocryphon scriptures reinforces the analogy.

[Synthia]

Also, I never liked the idea of doing can flipping, or 'griefing' sorts of Piracy myself. I like to try and help people more than hurt them, even strangers. I'm in it more for the cheers than the tears.

I do enjoy mining with an alt and doing indy stuff. [..] Maybe I really am a carebear?

Does anyone else like the concept of a blood raider miner? I mean...I'm sort of curious how other characters, blooder or otherwise, would react to that.

We have one, she doesn't talk much, is very chilled out and laid back.

How do people react ? they'll talk with her for a while, before "Oh, you're one of them!".

vOv

[Anyanka Funk]

Also, I never liked the idea of doing can flipping, or 'griefing' sorts of Piracy myself. I like to try and help people more than hurt them, even strangers. I'm in it more for the cheers than the tears.

I do enjoy mining with an alt and doing indy stuff. [..] Maybe I really am a carebear?

Does anyone else like the concept of a blood raider miner? I mean...I'm sort of curious how other characters, blooder or otherwise, would react to that.

We have one, she doesn't talk much, is very chilled out and laid back.

How do people react ? they'll talk with her for a while, before "Oh, you're one of them!".

vOv

Who?

[Synthia]

Also, I never liked the idea of doing can flipping, or 'griefing' sorts of Piracy myself. I like to try and help people more than hurt them, even strangers. I'm in it more for the cheers than the tears.

I do enjoy mining with an alt and doing indy stuff. [..] Maybe I really am a carebear?

Does anyone else like the concept of a blood raider miner? I mean...I'm sort of curious how other characters, blooder or otherwise, would react to that.

We have one, she doesn't talk much, is very chilled out and laid back.

How do people react ? they'll talk with her for a while, before "Oh, you're one of them!".

vOv

Who?

Why does it matter who it is ?

[Anyanka Funk]

Also, I never liked the idea of doing can flipping, or 'griefing' sorts of Piracy myself. I like to try and help people more than hurt them, even strangers. I'm in it more for the cheers than the tears.

I do enjoy mining with an alt and doing indy stuff. [..] Maybe I really am a carebear?

Does anyone else like the concept of a blood raider miner? I mean...I'm sort of curious how other characters, blooder or otherwise, would react to that.

We have one, she doesn't talk much, is very chilled out and laid back.

How do people react ? they'll talk with her for a while, before "Oh, you're one of them!".

vOv

Who?

Why does it matter who it is ?

I would like to play with all Blood Raiders.

[Odelya]

Hey Ji'kahr!

I was just browsing the forums and saw that you mentioned Odelya's story and her alignment to the Order of St. Tetrimon a few times. Let's get in touch when I am out of Beirut and done with my PhD—but don't wait, it might take some time!

In general I think it is always a good idea to get some ideas from history, but it is even better to get inspiration from the sources that EVE itself provides—and from what others have done so far. After all our fellow roleplayers will be the ones to interact with and they might have a completely different understanding or knowledge of history which makes it sometimes hard to build a meaningful relationship. (There are exception to this rules of course, especially now that pf has become static).

All hail to the Order!

Odelya