Backstage - OOC Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

That crews from destroyed capsuleer ships make up a substantial part of Blood Raider harvests? (The Burning Life, p. 59)

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: Black Thursday: Layoffs hit CCP, WoD cancellation inside story leaks  (Read 4470 times)

kalaratiri

  • Kalalalaakiota
  • The Mods
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2107
  • Shes mad but shes magic, theres no lie in her fire

Loxy and Xhagen are gone as well.
Logged


"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani

Silas Vitalia

  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3397

That guardian article confirmed many things I had suspected but never had confirmed.   CCP management would appear to be for the most part a bunch of assholes.

"The CEO had members of the fiction writing team put the apology together - he was either so out of touch, so arrogant, that he couldn’t find the words himself"

Fuck that guy, seriously.

Corporate work can be really bad; often there are lots of great employees, dedicated dreamers, and wonderful people that are forced to endure the awfulness of the superiors.

Logged

Kyoko Sakoda

  • Pod Captain
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505

That guardian article confirmed many things I had suspected but never had confirmed.   CCP management would appear to be for the most part a bunch of assholes.

"The CEO had members of the fiction writing team put the apology together - he was either so out of touch, so arrogant, that he couldn’t find the words himself"

Fuck that guy, seriously.

Corporate work can be really bad; often there are lots of great employees, dedicated dreamers, and wonderful people that are forced to endure the awfulness of the superiors.

Going to have to defend Hilmar on this one.

1) English is not his first language.
2) If you don't believe shadow writing happens in this industry and in others, you are quite naive. Everything goes through PR.

Hilmar gave them a set of points he wanted to make. It's hard to not feel bad for the guy when he hasn't been giving himself salary because of the Incarna fuckup.
Logged

Ursa Dropsus

  • Clonejack
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35

It was really just meant to highlight the startling ways in which he was out of touch. I don't think he had any concrete idea why people were pissed at the time (and said more on this subject, but that didn't show in the article). One got the impression that he was living in his own echo chamber of positive feedback on the Incarna rollout and rendered somewhat oblivious to its many problems - in which case, how is he supposed to learn from these mistakes? Other leaks at the time like his internal memo about how CCP should "Watch what they do, not what they say" help highlight that sort of bunker mentality I was driving at by pointing this out. I was under no illusion that CEO's, Heads of State, and so on write their own "speeches" but I can see how it appears that way, sure.

On the lighter side, this community's favorite hero TonyG at least knocked one piece of writing out of the park! ;p

P.S. Had no idea about the salary thing, but he's ultimately still responsible for a lot of bad decisions and internal culture, in my book, self-imposed salary reduction or not (and let's keep in mind that he can probably afford it after years of executive salaries and stock options paying out). I'm not calling for his head either, just hoping that he actually gets exposed to his mistakes for once, so that he can learn from them and avoid them in the future. One big problem with CCP is they repeat the same mistakes of overreach (something I'm equally and hypocritically guilty of with my own live event projects of the day, so there's that, too) and part of that is driven by being divorced from the negative consequences that result.

P.P.S Sorry to hear about Eterne. Always sucks to see guys knowledgeable about, and dedicated to, EVE's storyline go.

*Reactivates cloaking device*
Logged

kalaratiri

  • Kalalalaakiota
  • The Mods
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2107
  • Shes mad but shes magic, theres no lie in her fire

Dropbear, with the guardian article, I'm curious to know if they came to you asking for information or if you went to them after hearing about WoD shutting down? I always got the impression you were primarily an Eve dev, did you spend much time working on WoD?

And it's good to see you here, I'm sure everyone on backstage will be thrilled to see you remember our little corner of nerdiness :3
Logged


"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani

Ursa Dropsus

  • Clonejack
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35

Ian came to me asking for a comment after I posted some reddit threads about the WoD layoffs. I was incredibly skeptical at first. After talking a bit about his past work, I realized that he was none other than the author of this fantastic article: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/11/video-game-industry/ which you should read if you haven't already. He's the "realest" games journalist I knew, and I was genuinely honored he wanted anything from me.

(Aside: I had lavished some praise on that article, previously, in fact: http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1q6q3u/exploitation_in_the_video_game_industry_provides/cd9vowe)

At that point I said "Ask whatever you want, you have my full attention." And journalism (i.e. research, cross-examination, sourcing, and none of that listicle, clickbaity, hype-infested bullshit) ensued. I know a lot of people view it as a beat up article, but I think what he does is about as good as games journalism gets, even if his often critical opinions aren't exactly popular or well-received. I hope he has a bright future in games writing.
Logged

Esna Pitoojee

  • Keeper of the Harem
  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095

Wow... reading that was... urgh. Despite knowing a lot of it already, seeing it laid out like that really felt like a kick in the gut, especially the issues with stuff being constantly ripped down and done all over again.

I don't know if you remember this, but at the... going to say 2008 fanfest, they demonstrated a walking in stations with more functionality than we have today - multiplayer minigames, a player-owned facility and everything. And then it vanished. For a long time I wondered if this was a case of that particular feature being overshadowed by a new round of development (and have heard it was due to licensing issues as well), but from this it seems that this was only one manifestation of a larger rot.


Urgh.


Well, I am deeply sorry to hear about the new layoffs. Eterne will be deeply, deeply missed. Other layoffs at this point are CCP Loxy, who produced video and directed EVE TV, and CCP Xhagen, who was long-term support for the CSM and apparently had been on for more than 10 years.
Logged
I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Vikarion

  • Guest

Ursa, I know you are probably not here for Q&A, but if you want, could you state what you think EvE and CCP's long term prospects are?

I have been rather disappointed with the tendency for "oooh, shiny!" that has developed over the years, and the stubborn insistence that a certain idea is great, even under the guns of negative feedback (DUST 514). It seems now that they are somewhat reaping the rewards of management which is poorly directed. Do you think that they can survive this, and that there will be change?
Logged

Elmund Egivand

  • Pod Captain
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 773
  • Will jib for ISK

I know this is not strictly EVE-related and the website is oftentimes like a tabloid, but I think this link shares some insight on what the bloody hell is going on in the industry as a whole:

http://kotaku.com/why-game-developers-keep-getting-laid-off-1583192249
Logged
Deep sea fish loves you forever

Ursa Dropsus

  • Clonejack
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35

My speculation is no better than most everyone else's Vik. I think Valkyrie is a bit of a gamble; it'll either be a huge, runaway success (like DUST 514 was supposed to be) or a bit of a fizzler. I think the Facebook acquisition of Oculus can certainly help, though, since one challenge was increasing adoption of the hardware (and FB will presumably lower the barrier to entry by helping provide cheaper Rift units and "mainstreaming" the idea of VR culturally). I think ruling it out now (i.e. prematurely) as a likely failure doesn't give CCP its due credit, despite past history with DUST 514. If CCP can end up as a studio behind one of the Rift's successful launch titles, then I think it eases the pressure elsewhere considerably. It's a pretty savvy move, even if it's a gamble. They'll have more resources to sink back into EVE development if it succeeds, and at the same time vindicate their model of "moon shots" somewhat (which I don't think is inherently flawed, despite past failures).

I have zero place commenting on the future of Legion or EVE since I haven't followed either very closely. From what little I've gathered it sounds like they're wisely focusing on doing some genuine iteration on EVE and taking a more measured approach to Legion, but I really have no idea there.

Company culture is my biggest concern and question mark. This "War on the Impossible" stuff isn't sustainable. It's okay to be ambitious and take on projects like Valkyrie et al, but there has to be a more humble, level-headed approach when taking on such massive challenges. DUST 514 was supposed to be a hugely successful AAA FPS on a Console. AAA = 1, Console = 2, FPS = 3...that's three things CCP had never tried before, and their approach didn't give due reverence to the enormousness of taking on three wildly new challenges all in one, and most importantly, at the same time predicting and projecting huge success. A more humble approach would have been to make something smaller, build experience, and then expand outwards from that - or to leave ample room for the project to be a fizzler and a learning process (which their projections didn't). Aiming for all three things and projecting success was, put together, too much. This sort of thing is, plainly, hubris, and is a very real and recurring cultural issue from my experience. It greatly hinders critical self-reflection (both internally and taking in external feedback, like you mention) and divorces people in the decision-making process from their failures - at which point they aren't really learning from them. It's not failure that aggravates me when I think about this stuff, it's the inability to learn from it, and consequently repeat it (with hard working people's livelihoods being the price paid).

As far as "Ooh shiny!" goes, I think CCP is pretty well aware of this tendency internally and there is a lot of resistance to "Jesus Features" as they're called. Hell, "Say no to Jesus Features" was one of the company's yearly mottos as far back as 2004/5! Point being: they know it's an internal cultural problem and have taken steps to avoid it. I suspect that particular issue is at least mostly under control, but probably still rears its head as an emergency release valve during the hectic moments (certainly true during the Incarna debacle, when some absolutely extraordinary features were being proposed as a way to indicate a "return to a focus on EVE"). There is always going to be a conflict between iteration on core gameplay and providing brand new features. The former is seen as less marketable than the latter. Past successes like Apocrypha lend credence to the idea that big new shiny stuff drives subscriber numbers, but the metrics are quite a bit more nuanced and suggest that both models work. Another point is that Apocrypha was a Jesus Feature ("Shiny") done really well, due in no small part to the fact that almost the entirety of the WoD staff was re-purposed to support its development (aside: the half-truth of the argument that funding WoD never impacted EVE is no more evident than here, where you can see how a united focus on just the one title created something pretty amazing).

I think they'll survive these latest layoffs, as troubling as they are. CCP is a tremendously resilient and adaptable company still to this day filled with some incredibly talented people. I'm an eternal optimist, so I think there will be change, too, in terms of the culture of hubris. It's hard to imagine that at this point, CCP's upper management is still oblivious to the consequences of taking on huge challenges and expecting unequaled success. At some point even the most insulated of executive decision makers will take notice. If they somehow weren't already, then this latest round of layoffs should hammer the message home.

Back to lost talent: It seems that much if not all of the ATL GM crew have also been let go (they are in the "Publishing" division, so CCP's press release is technically correct, if utterly disingenuous). You guys will never know what you lost there, but there were guys I worked with whose knowledge of and passion for the storyline was truly awe-inspiring. One guy in particular who was let go was an absolute beast when it came to EVE lore, and his departure is really sad in those terms. He was ten times the writer and storyline nerd that I was, and it hurts to see that he never got the ridiculously awesome opportunities to contribute to it that I did. That said, you still have heavyweights like Delegate Zero and others contributing their impressive brainpower as time and resources permit, so I don't think its curtains for storyline in EVE (or EVE in general). Not by a long shot.
Logged

Vikarion

  • Guest

Thanks, Ursa. That's more than I expected.  :)
Logged

Ursa Dropsus

  • Clonejack
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35

You poke the bear, you get wall of text!
Logged

Kyoko Sakoda

  • Pod Captain
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505

Suddenly a bear drops.
Logged

Silas Vitalia

  • Demigod
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3397

Thank you kindly for the lengthy replies.  If I hadn't unsubbed already this might have been the final stabbing of the lore department that would have done me in anyway.

:/

Logged

Desiderya

  • Guest

I enjoy the direction the game took post-Incarna.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4