Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[kalaratiri]

Source.

Hello people,

As mentioned during the various Fanfest panels and round tables, I'm going to list here the various changes planned to Starbases for Summer that are being discussed on the Building Better Worlds Blog feedback.


First, regarding Assembly Arrays:

• We are giving all assembly arrays a 2% material reduction to manufactured products (except for the Drug laboratory, Subsystem System Array, Rapid Equipment Assembly Array and Supercapital Assembly Array). Assembly Arrays will keep their 25% time reduction.
• Advanced Assembly arrays no longer 10% have material waste. They now all have 2% material reduction like their regular counterparts.
• Rapid Equipment Array material waste now is 5% instead of 20%.
• X-Large Assembly Array is being renamed Capital Assembly Array to better reflect what it actually does.
• Capital Assembly Array is being renamed Supercapital Assembly Array for the same reasons.

We are planning to increase cargo capacity on the following Assembly Arrays:

• Corporate Hangar Arrays: from 1,400,000 m3 to 3,000,000 m3.
• Ammunition Assembly Array: from 150,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.
• Component Assembly Array: from 1,000,000 m3 to 1,500,000 m3.
• Drone Assembly Array: from 150,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.
• Equipment Assembly Array: from 500,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.
• Rapid Equipment Assembly Array: from 500,000 m3 to 1,000,000 m3.

Then, laboratories:

Mobile Laboratory has been renamed Research Laboratory. Advanced Mobile Laboratory has been renamed Design Laboratory. Hyasyoda Mobile Laboratory has been renamed Hyasyoda Laboratory.

Research labs:
Time multiplier for Research ME: 0.7 (was 0.75).
Time multiplier for Research TE: 0.7 (was 0.75).

Design labs:
Time multiplier for copying: 0.6 (was 0.65).
Time multiplier for invention: 0.5 (was 0.5).

Hyasyoda labs:
Time multiplier for Research ME: 0.65 (was 0.75).
Time multiplier for Research TE: 0.65 (was 0.75).

Interestingly says "Summer" rather than "Kronos", so not sure on the time scale for these.

[orange]

It is anticipated that the Mobile and Hyasyoda labs invention times will be reduced such that they are not better than Level 3 Caldari Outpost.

Which is a good thing.

[PracticalTechnicality]

This seems to be the right combination of 'better than NPC stations' and 'encourages alliance to upgrade outposts' in my opinion.  I do not have much in the way of argument with this. 

It will be up to the fuel costs of jump logistics vs POS fuel consumption to see which is the more efficient in the long term.  More spread sheeting for me and many others, I guess.

[Lyn Farel]

I have always found weird the idea to make production and/or invention (industry basically) easier in nullsec than in civilized space like high sec...

It should be harder to produce in nullsec, and even harder to implement logistics between high sec and nullsec, which would still make producing in nullsec your only choice in the matter.

But lol jump freighters and jump bridges. 

[Desiderya]

Yes because risk/reward should not be a thing, Lyn.
ALso it IS easier to do that by far - the efficiency is different but you pay for it through various means, not just in ISK.

[Lyn Farel]

Not sure if serious ?

Risk/reward is another matter that has nothing to do with the principles at hand. You can perfectly have huge constraints (as it should be) to ripe the fruit of your reward in nullsec, that should be as expected, much higher than the one you do in high sec. The same way nullsec is supposed to be dangerous (supposed, lol), logistical burdens also are part of the constraints.

The only thing they are doing currently, and have been doing since the implementation of jump bridges and force projection capabilities is to homogenize high sec and nullsec and closing the gap between both. It's not interesting enough in nullsec to make profitable industry ? Then let's reduce the constraints ! Making the region truly valuable (even more than it is now) and at the same time making the access to said resources even more a pain in the ass (to, I don't know, make them even more valuable) would be too hard. 


Edit : to clarify, I find it weird to see invention and the likes be suddenly considered in the conceptual big rewards that nullsec should bring to players. To my eyes it's part of logistics. It's part of your military. It's what should be harder than doing so in highsec, to precisely ripe the true rewards of nullsec (mining ? valuable resources ? lolmoon materials ? I'm not an expert on those matters). Logistics and military should be scarse and difficult in nullsec, and the only way to offset that a bit would be to produce them on site. Which is currently impossible with stuff like jump bridges :/

[Desiderya]

Ya, srs.
Have you tried it or is it just raaaa jump thingies raaa nullsec bloc. Cause it looks like it. Industry in highsec is as easy as it gets. Jump drives are actually making it easier still, as you may be aware of the fact that shit gets imported into null instead of being produced there. Surprise.

[kalaratiri]

OP updated with changes.

[Silas Vitalia]

Ya, srs.
Have you tried it or is it just raaaa jump thingies raaa nullsec bloc. Cause it looks like it. Industry in highsec is as easy as it gets. Jump drives are actually making it easier still, as you may be aware of the fact that shit gets imported into null instead of being produced there. Surprise.

Removing the risk-free production pipeline from highsec to nullsec would be a good thing.  There's essentially no risk or practical restrictions on transporting vast quantities of things from point A to point B.  So people make whatever they need to make in the easiest point A in the game, then no-risk take it to point B wherever that may be.

If I were Eve Dictator for a day, I'd cut the umbilical cord between building things and transporting things.  There is a problem with the game mechanics when you can move things through 'dangerous' territory with 0 chance of danger.

[Desiderya]

I'll simply disagree. That this is not the solution in my opinion.

[orange]

Ya, srs.
Have you tried it or is it just raaaa jump thingies raaa nullsec bloc. Cause it looks like it. Industry in highsec is as easy as it gets. Jump drives are actually making it easier still, as you may be aware of the fact that shit gets imported into null instead of being produced there. Surprise.

Removing the risk-free production pipeline from highsec to nullsec would be a good thing.  There's essentially no risk or practical restrictions on transporting vast quantities of things from point A to point B.  So people make whatever they need to make in the easiest point A in the game, then no-risk take it to point B wherever that may be.

If I were Eve Dictator for a day, I'd cut the umbilical cord between building things and transporting things.  There is a problem with the game mechanics when you can move things through 'dangerous' territory with 0 chance of danger.

Making such a change without also vastly changing the distribution of moons will result in a huge increase in the cost of T2 ships and modules.

The most used T2 component - Microprocessors - requires 2 moon products: 1 of 4 racial carbides and nanotransistors.  Cobalt/Scandium/Titanium/Tungsten are not equally distributed across space and are not generally found in regions adjacent to the respective empire (for example, Cobalt is not found in regions neighboring the Federation).  Nanotransistors require Platinum Technite (Technetium) and Neo Mercurite (Mercury).  Technetium and Mercury concentrations are located on opposite sides of the cluster from each other.  In theory, the southeast can go it alone due to the presence of Cobalt for alchemy, but the northwest is SOL due to a lack of Mercury.

This means that even the most basic of T2 products necessitates the movement of moon materials between regions (generally to high-sec hubs).

This is not to say there would not be other changes.  The global economy would likely balkanize as the value of minerals in high vs null would diverge.  The real end-value of an item thus would vary depending on where it was built.

There are a lot of knock on effects from limiting mobility and they impact both null and high sec activities.

[Silas Vitalia]

Ya, srs.
Have you tried it or is it just raaaa jump thingies raaa nullsec bloc. Cause it looks like it. Industry in highsec is as easy as it gets. Jump drives are actually making it easier still, as you may be aware of the fact that shit gets imported into null instead of being produced there. Surprise.

Removing the risk-free production pipeline from highsec to nullsec would be a good thing.  There's essentially no risk or practical restrictions on transporting vast quantities of things from point A to point B.  So people make whatever they need to make in the easiest point A in the game, then no-risk take it to point B wherever that may be.

If I were Eve Dictator for a day, I'd cut the umbilical cord between building things and transporting things.  There is a problem with the game mechanics when you can move things through 'dangerous' territory with 0 chance of danger.

Making such a change without also vastly changing the distribution of moons will result in a huge increase in the cost of T2 ships and modules.

The most used T2 component - Microprocessors - requires 2 moon products: 1 of 4 racial carbides and nanotransistors.  Cobalt/Scandium/Titanium/Tungsten are not equally distributed across space and are not generally found in regions adjacent to the respective empire (for example, Cobalt is not found in regions neighboring the Federation).  Nanotransistors require Platinum Technite (Technetium) and Neo Mercurite (Mercury).  Technetium and Mercury concentrations are located on opposite sides of the cluster from each other.  In theory, the southeast can go it alone due to the presence of Cobalt for alchemy, but the northwest is SOL due to a lack of Mercury.

This means that even the most basic of T2 products necessitates the movement of moon materials between regions (generally to high-sec hubs).

This is not to say there would not be other changes.  The global economy would likely balkanize as the value of minerals in high vs null would diverge.  The real end-value of an item thus would vary depending on where it was built.

There are a lot of knock on effects from limiting mobility and they impact both null and high sec activities.

You are right of course.

I think my point is that I feel one should start from the sort of gameplay one wants to encourage/thrust upon the players, and then adjust the game to follow, rather than  letting the status quo that has been optimized by the players stagnate and defeat any changes before they are implemented due to null or highsec threadnaught tears.

 
I guess you have to start from a position of a few very basic and simple questions:

how profitable should "x" industry activity be at a base level (not including market shenanigans, but break even sorts of prices)?

how hard/difficult/risky should it be to do "x" industry activity?'

Should there be an inverse relationship between profit of doing a thing and how hard it is to do a thing?

How do we make a thing harder for industry?


As the game currently stands - getting difficult to obtain materials and then having them safely moved to safe areas to be turned into profitable widgets is not a hard thing, and vice versa moving things made in safe areas to areas that need them.  Are we ok with that game play?

The Empires of Earth profited greatly from long distance trade routes when they secured the routes themselves through military or financial means, and then reaped the benefits.   They had to pay the costs in manpower and resources to produce an income stream (say to the "new world" or "asia" or what have you.   The Empires didn't get a risk-free pre-built highway of invulnerability between them and the trade resources they coveted.

[Lyn Farel]

And it was a lot harder to produce stuff on site where infrastructure was poor or non existent to begin with.

But the resources found here were... worth it.

I find that idea of balkanization of economy rather cool tbh.

[Alain Colcer]

Its interesting, but from an economic/resource/infrastructure perspective i see the following:

High-sec -> industrialized civilization, few resources, plenty of facilities to work it, high taxes

Low-sec -> civilization borders, pockets of industralized/advanced infrastructure, pockets of valuable resources, low-taxes

Null-sec -> the frontier, resources all around, little civilization, little industrialization, no-taxes (or very low if only applied to sov owners)


So in a way,

High-sec for large scale manufacturing, but you pay the price, its throughput vs taxes (time vs cost)
High-sec for highly advanced research (t3 reserve engineering)
Acquiring resources is difficult as quantities are not enough, and some are not even present.

Low-sec allows for the same as high-sec at lower costs, but only in certain spots....(conflict driver)
Acquiring resources is possible, but the spread through small pockets

Null-sec requires deployment of infrastructure (investment vs time)
Null-sec has all the resources
Null-sec has no taxes


So in essence i wouldnt want special cases for Arrays specific to low-sec or null-sec, i would prefer that as long as players "invested" in a location, then it would become valuable.

POS with arrays in low-sec would be nice, specially if you were aligned with the faction owning said space (bonuses for being in FW)......

And a clear progression from worst to best between : ( high-sec station -> outpost -> POS -> upgraded outpost )

So a caldari outpost with all the science upgrades would be overpowered in terms of churning copies and researched BPOs/invention runs......making null worthy but as long as you went all the way into the expenditures.