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The original starship classes in EVE were frigates, cruisers, industrials and the elusive Battleships?

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Author Topic: New Ships Visuals  (Read 14226 times)

V. Gesakaarin

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #60 on: 28 May 2014, 11:09 »

I think the Moa looks sleek, minimalist, functional, and "hi-tech" which is everything Caldari ship design should be about, no?

I mean, it's probably not represented by current game mechanics but I always thought Caldari warship design and fleet doctrine was based around getting into advantageous positions by not being detected. The Moa seems to fit into that thinking insofar that its angles look designed to break up its EM detection profile along with those fancy thermal baffle thingies.

Then again it's not like Eve lets you power down your ships shields and systems so you can run cold in space or base d-scan on things like your sensor suite vs. other ships thermal emissions, radar profiles etc.
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Graelyn

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #61 on: 28 May 2014, 12:53 »

Then again it's not like Eve lets you power down your ships shields and systems so you can run cold in space...

In my headcanon anyways, I always thought that's what logging off in space meant.  8)

Takes a full 15 minutes to get that reactor spun down....
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If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!

Esna Pitoojee

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #62 on: 28 May 2014, 14:04 »

Then again it's not like Eve lets you power down your ships shields and systems so you can run cold in space...

In my headcanon anyways, I always thought that's what logging off in space meant.  8)

Takes a full 15 minutes to get that reactor spun down....

Something like this. Since spontaneously shutdown of a warp core is often pointed to as the reason our ships up and explode all at once, taking some time (either 1 minute under normal conditions, or 15 minute following combat stress on the ship's systems) to safely stabilize and shut down all internal systems is needed to go 'dark' in space.
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V. Gesakaarin

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #63 on: 28 May 2014, 14:12 »

Then again it's not like Eve lets you power down your ships shields and systems so you can run cold in space...

In my headcanon anyways, I always thought that's what logging off in space meant.  8)

Takes a full 15 minutes to get that reactor spun down....

Sure, that could explain it.

Although I think I was just pondering since we have submarine spaceships what it would be like to have submarine style warfare. As in having a scanning system where you have the choice to run, "cold and passive" or, "hot and active." Where you can try to be sneaky and use passive but less accurate detection methods or less sneaky but more accurate detection methods. So you could have a cat and mouse game just finding your prey -- do you want to sit in your safespot trying to reduce your ability to be detected (running silent, passive sonar) or do you want to give zero fucks and find your prey ASAP while also giving your own position away easier (full speed ahead, pinging everything)?

Probably won't happen just due to the fact there will probably be so many tears from people upset their safespots got busted not due to probes but solely due to mad scanning skills, among other things.  :lol:
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Makoto Priano

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #64 on: 28 May 2014, 16:48 »

Re: Caldari style.

So. I think there are a few issues here. In the first place, there's naturally going to be drift in what looks 'stylish' and 'futuristic.' After a decade, aesthetics have likely drifted enough that certain faction's ships will start seeing design drift to chase aesthetics. Increased technical capability also factors into this, of course.

Further, let me be honest: Caldari ships may have had a 'funky, no-holds-barred, utilitarian' style before, but asymmetry was the worst element of it. The first and simplest issue is that asymmetrical ships will have lower rates of re-use of parts, because you'll end up needing different assemblies for different engine sizes, fins, etc. This decreases production efficiency, and efficiency is supposedly a Caldari hallmark.

Asymmetry requires significantly more effort to maintain thrust through the center of  gravity, with potential issues with tendencies to yaw or roll. A lot of asymmetrical Caldari ships had really funky engine plumes and odd engine placement, making me wonder if the artists had gone with 'rule of cool' in place of basic design.

So. Frankly, I don't mind seeing the asymmetry go. Radically asymmetrical ships were dumb, even if they were characterful.

Now, agreed that these ships do have a bit more of the 'bird of prey' look that previously had been a notable element of Amarr cruisers-- from the Omen's hooked nose to the Prophecy's chubby space chicken style. Further, agreed that this looks like it's intended to be aerodynamic. Both of these make me go, "eh," a little bit.

Still. The Moa was a god-awful, ugly ship before. I for one love the new Moa, making it the first time I've ever actually liked the ship in my decade of on-and-off EVE play.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #65 on: 28 May 2014, 17:34 »

What Makoto said. People tout the Caldari as being about function over form, but then go around and ask for asymmetry for the sake of asymmetry (which is asking for form over function). Asymmetry is almost always less efficient for the reasons Makoto said.

That's not to say that Caldari ships can't have some asymmetrical elements, but this should be done sparingly where it makes sense, instead of "just because" as it was in the past.

As far as the new moa goes... as I see it, they look to be trying to maintain the old general shape. They seem to have done that by stretching it length-wise and making it symmetrical in the process. But overall it still carries a lot of the same original design elements, if harder to see now.

I think the main difference I'm seeing right now is in the texturing. The shape isn't an issue, but it has a lot smoother plating in comparison to the more technical 'blinky lights' of the older designs. It actually looks like something that would armor tank rather than shield tank, which is I think where people are seeing the 'Amarrian' style in the design.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2014, 17:44 by Samira Kernher »
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Makoto Priano

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #66 on: 28 May 2014, 18:36 »

Hm. The issue with armor strength is that we can never tell how thick armor is. Consider, for instance, Panzer IVs. Their glacis and turret front armor had quite a few upgrades over the course of WW2, and the Panzer IV was in service from before the war through to 1945. Over that period, Panzer IV armor went from inferior to the French Hotchkiss H35 (20mm maximum armor compared to 34mm maximum armor) to superior to a T-34/85 (80mm glacis plate to 65mm glacis plate, though sloping and turret front differed, leading to a T-34/85 generally being considered to have superior armor). These difference, visually, are beyond the ability of an observer to identify. Identification of variants of Pz IV relies on knowledge of the guns, types of vision for the driver, the rear engine deck, or types of schuerzen-- despite the armor alone being significantly heavier later on the war.

So-- the paneling on the new Moa looks shinier and more like armor, but it could be fairly thin and paneled to ensure easy production, replacement of damaged sections, or access to systems while in dock.
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Samira Kernher

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #67 on: 28 May 2014, 18:43 »

I wasn't saying it was actually strongly armored, just that the current design -looks- rather armor plated, which gives it more of an Amarr-style look rather than Caldari.
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Makoto Priano

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #68 on: 28 May 2014, 18:58 »

Fair enough. ;)
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Elmund Egivand

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #69 on: 28 May 2014, 20:49 »

Confirming not a fan of the new Moa. Naga feels like the last true Caldari hull they added.

But the Naga is also mostly symmetrical.

It's not that it's symmetrical that bugs me - I also love the Rokh, even though it's 99% symmetrical. No, what bugs me about the new!Moa is that it seems too... sleek?

We've always been told that Caldari design is 'function first, everything else second' - almost brutalist, with flat fronts, protruding components, and right angles abounding. There was virtually no concessions to 'softer' aesthetics. The new Moa, by contrast, is so sleek and smooth it almost looks like it was designed to fly in atmosphere first and then got shunted to a space-based design. It feels like some kind of a showroom piece, or maybe a custom build for an elite racing circuit - not a function-first war machine.

Ah, you mean that. I'm more perplexed that the Moa has folding bits at all. What purpose does that serve? To reduce the size of the ship so it can reduce the size of the depleted vacuum bubble to initiate warp? If so why not just have the entire wing fold?
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Lyn Farel

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #70 on: 29 May 2014, 02:38 »


I think the main difference I'm seeing right now is in the texturing. The shape isn't an issue, but it has a lot smoother plating in comparison to the more technical 'blinky lights' of the older designs. It actually looks like something that would armor tank rather than shield tank, which is I think where people are seeing the 'Amarrian' style in the design.

No, to me it's the shape, really. It has the same shape than some legion configurations, or like the omen/prophecy. Especially the prophecy, but sleeker and caldarized.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #71 on: 29 May 2014, 10:18 »

I think the Moa looks sleek, minimalist, functional, and "hi-tech" which is everything Caldari ship design should be about, no?

I mean, it's probably not represented by current game mechanics but I always thought Caldari warship design and fleet doctrine was based around getting into advantageous positions by not being detected. The Moa seems to fit into that thinking insofar that its angles look designed to break up its EM detection profile along with those fancy thermal baffle thingies.

Then again it's not like Eve lets you power down your ships shields and systems so you can run cold in space or base d-scan on things like your sensor suite vs. other ships thermal emissions, radar profiles etc.

That would be really bad ass.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #72 on: 29 May 2014, 13:01 »

Yeah that has been proposed like 6-7 years ago when Scagga was campaigning for CSM. And probably even sooner that I don't know of.
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Saikoyu

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #73 on: 29 May 2014, 14:18 »

Hey all again.  Just can't stay away from your guys.  Anyway, about the new Moa, ran across this getting my eve fix on youtube.  Don't think its been posted yet here. 

I challenge you to not think of it like this afterwards


And, yeah, the new Typhoon is calling to me. 
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Laurentis Thiesant

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Re: New Ships Visuals
« Reply #74 on: 29 May 2014, 18:59 »

That typhoon has literally made me stop procrastinating as I have since last year and get my eve laptop fixed.
 :D
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