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[PracticalTechnicality]

I will admit, readily, that assertion was complete exaggeration in the name of comedic license.

[Ibrahim Tash-Murkon]

I don't think anybody is surprised at this really. Ever since Incarna I think it was clear that CCP would be at best pushing WoD onto the back burner. I am sad to see it happen though, not just because of the employees affected but also because I want CCP to succeed. I just guess there was a time a few years ago when CCP got maybe a little too ambitious and spread itself thin by doing DUST 514 and acquiring White Wolf Publishing to develop a whole new intellectual property. They were both a gamble and they definitely shouldn't have made both at the same time.

[Louella Dougans]

FEARLESS 

[Drakolus]

While I can't claim to be a total Vampire the Masq fanboy, I can at least say I have enjoyed the few times I've played it.  I think overall it's a good IP and it deserves a good dev team to give it a go in the MMO world.  I used to believe that CCP was that dev team.  What little tidbits they did let leak gave me hope.  The persistent threat of violence much like the EVE universe along with the sense of unknown that I think CCP are good at putting into their games fit well into a Vampire universe.  That being said, everything outside of the actual GAME side of these games appears to be one giant pile of wankfail and I don't see that improving anytime soon.  I think CCP learned A lesson during the whole mass protest, Incarna bomb but it remains to be seen if they learned the right lesson.

I think my biggest sadface is that outside of CCP, I can't think of a development studio that would do the storyline, gameplay and overall feel of a Vampire game well.

[Makoto Priano]

Interesting, last year's loss wasn't in fact a cashflow issue, but I seem to recall hearing as a deprecation of assets-- namely, the value associated with a certain unnamed source code. This was presumably the first step for CCP writing off WoD. 

Re: EVE. CCP needs to burn through a lot of development time to deal with legacy issues-- POS code, wonky, click-heavy industry interfaces, etc --and increase immersion. Unfortunately, I think we're going to run into an inmates-running-the-asylum problem regarding the social element of EVE. CCP has been hiring from its community for a while, which increases the amount of game knowledge at the company's fingertips, but also institutionalizes player bias. To increase retention rates of EVE players, there needs to be systemic improvement of PvE, and at least a tamping down on rampant griefplay in HS; any efforts to deal with either, though, will surely draw the cries of  PvPers for neglecting NS/PvP issues, including those who label themselves 'high sec content creators' for miner ganking, can baiting, etc.

[Dessau]

To increase retention rates of EVE players, there needs to be systemic improvement of PvE, and at least a tamping down on rampant griefplay in HS; any efforts to deal with either, though, will surely draw the cries of  PvPers for neglecting NS/PvP issues, including those who label themselves 'high sec content creators' for miner ganking, can baiting, etc.

I've been under the impression that Burn Jita, Blue Donut, et cetera are things precisely because the sovereignty system is out of step with the realities of nullspace, i.e. mechanics that were built for a playerbase a fraction as large and with a fraction of the resources. If we 'give the babies their bottle' in the short term by focusing on fixes such as expanding the cluster, increasing force projection costs, and utilizing a non-linear cost model for holding sovereignty, wouldn't that give the highsec boo-hoo'ers much more reason to focus on their affairs back at home?

[orange]

breathe new life into the space-taking game of EVE (which has become tired and old, even for the entities that do it).

I've been under the impression that Burn Jita, Blue Donut, et cetera are things precisely because the sovereignty system is out of step with the realities of nullspace, i.e. mechanics that were built for a playerbase a fraction as large and with a fraction of the resources. If we 'give the babies their bottle' in the short term by focusing on fixes such as expanding the cluster, increasing force projection costs, and utilizing a non-linear cost model for holding sovereignty, wouldn't that give the highsec boo-hoo'ers much more reason to focus on their affairs back at home?

Another option would be to eliminate the sov mechanic entirely, since it is a forced mechanic for placement of flags, starbase maintenance cost reduction, and services that could just as well be based upon the fact it is null-sec (versus additional investment).

Sov becomes a matter of living in the space you want to hold.  If you don't live in the system, then be prepared for others to occupy that space.

[Dessau]

Another option would be to eliminate the sov mechanic entirely, since it is a forced mechanic for placement of flags, starbase maintenance cost reduction, and services that could just as well be based upon the fact it is null-sec (versus additional investment).

Sov becomes a matter of living in the space you want to hold.  If you don't live in the system, then be prepared for others to occupy that space.

Now that sounds like some wild west business right there. I wonder how many dyed-in-the-wool sovlords would balk at such a prospect.

[Elmund Egivand]

Another option would be to eliminate the sov mechanic entirely, since it is a forced mechanic for placement of flags, starbase maintenance cost reduction, and services that could just as well be based upon the fact it is null-sec (versus additional investment).

Sov becomes a matter of living in the space you want to hold.  If you don't live in the system, then be prepared for others to occupy that space.

Now that sounds like some wild west business right there. I wonder how many dyed-in-the-wool sovlords would balk at such a prospect.

But it sounds awesome and is exactly how territories were held once upon a time. This allows for so much shenanigans. You set borders and have presence there, but that doesn't stop smaller entities from doing the bandit raid thing with their covops because there's nobody else deeper inside. Force the sov leaders to make a choice. Small but fortified and efficient or large but less actual coverage?

(I'm supporting this notion because I too want to be a banditto)

[Silas Vitalia]

Another option would be to eliminate the sov mechanic entirely, since it is a forced mechanic for placement of flags, starbase maintenance cost reduction, and services that could just as well be based upon the fact it is null-sec (versus additional investment).

Sov becomes a matter of living in the space you want to hold.  If you don't live in the system, then be prepared for others to occupy that space.

Now that sounds like some wild west business right there. I wonder how many dyed-in-the-wool sovlords would balk at such a prospect.

But it sounds awesome and is exactly how territories were held once upon a time. This allows for so much shenanigans. You set borders and have presence there, but that doesn't stop smaller entities from doing the bandit raid thing with their covops because there's nobody else deeper inside. Force the sov leaders to make a choice. Small but fortified and efficient or large but less actual coverage?

(I'm supporting this notion because I too want to be a banditto)

Quickly heading off topic, but Eve's null issues imo have and always will be related to how easy it is to move things (ships, supplies), instantly from A to B with zero consequences or difficulty. 

Here on Earth, when you fought a war you had to make a decision between leaving your troops at home, or going off and attacking something.  Supply chains mattered.    These are things that were attacked and effected strategy.  Far off campaign? Better hope your neighbor doesn't attack.  Supply chain ambushed? Good luck feeding the front line. 

Being able to do those things instantly and safely in EVE is the sov problem to me.

[Publius Valerius]

Another option would be to eliminate the sov mechanic entirely, since it is a forced mechanic for placement of flags, starbase maintenance cost reduction, and services that could just as well be based upon the fact it is null-sec (versus additional investment).

Sov becomes a matter of living in the space you want to hold.  If you don't live in the system, then be prepared for others to occupy that space.

Now that sounds like some wild west business right there. I wonder how many dyed-in-the-wool sovlords would balk at such a prospect.

But it sounds awesome and is exactly how territories were held once upon a time. This allows for so much shenanigans. You set borders and have presence there, but that doesn't stop smaller entities from doing the bandit raid thing with their covops because there's nobody else deeper inside. Force the sov leaders to make a choice. Small but fortified and efficient or large but less actual coverage?

(I'm supporting this notion because I too want to be a banditto)

Quickly heading off topic, but Eve's null issues imo have and always will be related to how easy it is to move things (ships, supplies), instantly from A to B with zero consequences or difficulty. 

Here on Earth, when you fought a war you had to make a decision between leaving your troops at home, or going off and attacking something.  Supply chains mattered.    These are things that were attacked and effected strategy.  Far off campaign? Better hope your neighbor doesn't attack.  Supply chain ambushed? Good luck feeding the front line. 

Being able to do those things instantly and safely in EVE is the sov problem to me.

Moreover the loss sovereignty doesnt mean you loss your asset. It is something what was always immersion breaking for me. Why should I hold asset/private property in a Station for example, when this station now is not my/ours anymore?

I think CCP has the whole inducement to hold territory wrong. Just a minor example: As it currently is, it is just a tool moderate conflict, or lets say create conflict on a "higher" level. The alliance leader--the local Mittani--doesnt pay the bill/sovereignty, therefore WE have to go to war. There is zero individual/person intensive (besides your own ego/and the average dick size comparison.) that you see it as YOUR conflict. Is your private property endanger? Your wallet? Or even your life? No. But I also know which 0.0 bears sit in the CSM. So I know we never will see a increase in ANARCHY-elements, as it means less power for them. Because do you need a alliance-leader to shoot the enemy in the face in the good old wild-west-style? Of course not (I would even say you dont need any structure at all.). Thats why I dont hold my breath, as I dont think we will ever see a move in a more wild-west/anarchy directing back again (and I mean really back to the roots. Which means, no going back to the old tower spamming. ).


As for WoD. It is a great IP. I just read through the stuff lately. I can tell it is really great, it has lot of moral grey, the Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines has also so nice mature/dark mood. So I hope CCP license the IP or sells it. Something which they should had done in the first place. So, I fell sorry for all the people which lost their job, I hope they will land on their feet and they find a new workplace soon.

As for CCP choices. I have to say I would be even harsher. I know many people wouldnt like what I have to say but I was always against that sunk costs (and personal attachments) should be part of the decision process. What I mean with it? I explain: Imagine a couple which holds a bar. It was always had dream to hold this bar, and yes they made alot of investments*** into the bar. But should those old investments** be part of their decisions? No. They should choose to work in the bar not because of past decisions*, but rather because of the (current) opportunity costs. Which means for example: If both can made more money in a real job, then they should take this job (and let someone else work in the bar or sell the bar). Thats how I also see DUST. Sorry for any fan. But if the game doesnt make more profit, as I get when I put the money in the bank; then the plug should be pulled. By all the love, somewhere you have to pull the rip cord. The difference for me in DUST and WoD is just that CCP maybe can make some few bucks still out of the WoD IP. 




________
*** to be more precisely alot of investments which cant be recovered, even not recovered through selling of the bar.
**and you could also add personal attachments.
*no matter how much money they already have invested.

Edit: Fix a typo.

[Saede Riordan]

I have an idea to go along with your removal of sov mechanics.

Remove local. All of it. Everywhere.

Trust me, once you're used to it, it makes the game way more interesting.

[Dessau]

As for WoD. It is a great IP. I just read through the stuff lately. I cant tell it is really great, it has lot of moral grey, the Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines has also so nice mature/dark mood. So I hope CCP license the IP or sells it.

Yeah, the old WoD still has great potential, though I'm not sure what could be made of licensed works such as video games. The greatness of the Storyteller system was the open-endedness. Maybe stuff like you suggested, similar to Bloodlines, is the better way to go. It would be nice if CCP could recoup a bit of the investment and license the development to someone else, though I wonder if there's a willing party at this point.

[Publius Valerius]

As for WoD. It is a great IP. I just read through the stuff lately. I cant tell it is really great, it has lot of moral grey, the Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines has also so nice mature/dark mood. So I hope CCP license the IP or sells it.

Yeah, the old WoD still has great potential, though I'm not sure what could be made of licensed works such as video games. The greatness of the Storyteller system was the open-endedness. Maybe stuff like you suggested, similar to Bloodlines, is the better way to go. It would be nice if CCP could recoup a bit of the investment and license the development to someone else, though I wonder if there's a willing party at this point.

True. I think this is the problem. I dont think truthfully there is a party which spends money on it (just maybe... just maybe. )... But in all reality there isnt another studio which will spend money on either WoD or DUST.

Edit: P.S. I had a typo in the post before. I meant to say: "I can tell it is really great,"

I have an idea to go along with your removal of sov mechanics.

Remove local. All of it. Everywhere.

Trust me, once you're used to it, it makes the game way more interesting.

I second this idea. Everything which tips the scale to more anarchy is welcome by me. Or lets say: Less cost free information (of who is in the system...aka local), is always welcome.

[Myyona]

So CCP is picking up speed in their fall from the heights.

Oh, and while we get rid of sov. mechanics, could we please get rid of (most) jump drives too?