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[Jace]

So I still haven't finished reading all of Source, but I thought it would be good to mention for those who don't have it: it finally ends the soft clone shenanigans:

A capsuleer killed out of her capsule might die permanently, and if not, she will lose much time in the gap between her backup's creation and her new cloning.

So what most people have interpreted over scattered PF and the words of CCP actors they just flat out said. Yes, you can have a backup and it be activated while outside of the pod. And yes, you will lose the memory. While most of us had already deciphered this from other sources of CCP folks, this gives it a nice easy way to provide the source.

[Morwen Lagann]

This legitimizes backup clones, not necessarily soft clones. 'Soft' clones (as far as I've used them in RP) are a backup clone with a specific method of creation that is the opposite of the lethal 'hard' scan. That is, they're slow, require you to be knocked out for several hours and put in stasis of some form, and don't kill you.

I'll probably be sticking to soft cloning as being through an experimental, quasi-legal procedure that enjoys reasonable levels of success but has more risks than the average capsuleer might be willing to put themselves under. As primarily an anti-godmoding device it shouldn't really affect anyone. :p

[Elmund Egivand]

I thought the soft clones ARE the backup clones. You go, get knocked out, get your memory backed up into another clone, a process which may take several hours, and then you wake up and do whatever.

Then when you die, clone gets activated and now has to do detective work to fill in the gap (assuming that you didn't send a pre-recorded message or you do not have any implants in your head that captures your final hours and sends to any media accessible by said soft clone) and possibly avenge you.

[Morwen Lagann]

I thought the soft clones ARE the backup clones. You go, get knocked out, get your memory backed up into another clone, a process which may take several hours, and then you wake up and do whatever.

Then when you die, clone gets activated and now has to do detective work to fill in the gap (assuming that you didn't send a pre-recorded message or you do not have any implants in your head that captures your final hours and sends to any media accessible by said soft clone) and possibly avenge you.

That is a soft clone as I usually define it. But there's nothing stating that you can have a second copy made when you get a traditional hard scan done. It's implied that you can even intercept the transmission from scanned clone to fresh one by the stuff going on with Jamyl in TEA and presumably T1 (the latter of which I haven't read).

I think the implication in Source is that the 'hard' scan is used for both cases, and that while a 'soft' scan may be implied to exist, it's not the normal route.

[Jace]

This legitimizes backup clones, not necessarily soft clones. 'Soft' clones (as far as I've used them in RP) are a backup clone with a specific method of creation that is the opposite of the lethal 'hard' scan. That is, they're slow, require you to be knocked out for several hours and put in stasis of some form, and don't kill you.

I'll probably be sticking to soft cloning as being through an experimental, quasi-legal procedure that enjoys reasonable levels of success but has more risks than the average capsuleer might be willing to put themselves under. As primarily an anti-godmoding device it shouldn't really affect anyone. :p

What Elmund said? I'd always interpreted soft and backup as the same thing. If the method used the hard lethal scan, then you wouldn't lose the time - the fatal scan would have captured everything.

And if there wasn't a non-lethal way to scan, then how could a backup be made? The clones that the lethal ones go into are essentially blank DNA slates in order for the entire scan upon podding to be transferred, yes? It's not like a podding suddenly transfers to multiple clones, so how could you make a lethal backup? The lethal method is 1:1 is it not?

[Lyn Farel]

[nvm, misread ]

[Samira Kernher]

This legitimizes backup clones, not necessarily soft clones. 'Soft' clones (as far as I've used them in RP) are a backup clone with a specific method of creation that is the opposite of the lethal 'hard' scan. That is, they're slow, require you to be knocked out for several hours and put in stasis of some form, and don't kill you.

I'll probably be sticking to soft cloning as being through an experimental, quasi-legal procedure that enjoys reasonable levels of success but has more risks than the average capsuleer might be willing to put themselves under. As primarily an anti-godmoding device it shouldn't really affect anyone. :p

What Elmund said? I'd always interpreted soft and backup as the same thing. If the method used the hard lethal scan, then you wouldn't lose the time - the fatal scan would have captured everything.

And if there wasn't a non-lethal way to scan, then how could a backup be made? The clones that the lethal ones go into are essentially blank DNA slates in order for the entire scan upon podding to be transferred, yes? It's not like a podding suddenly transfers to multiple clones, so how could you make a lethal backup? The lethal method is 1:1 is it not?

It's simple data.

A lethal backup works in that you burn scan the brain, save that data on some medium while also using it to make a new clone. This could be done both while making a backup deliberately or after a pod cloning--in both cases, the data can be saved while also using it in the creation of a new clone.

Imagine scanning something. You have a picture, you put it in a scanner and scan it, then toss the original in a fire. You then have the data of that picture saved to your computer. You then print out a copy, but that doesn't delete the data from your PC unless you choose to manually delete it. If you lose the copy you printed, you can just use the data to print out a new one.

That pod cloning doesn't save the data in the transfer is a security mechanism to prevent unauthorized duplication. A capsuleer could easily decide to have it get saved instead of deleted for the purpose of having the ability to make backup clones. Or go in to a lab at any point and ask for a backup--having themselves burn scanned in the lab, transferred to a new clone, and the scan saved on harddrive for future need.

[Jace]

Huh, I apparently misread the tech stuff before. I always thought it was part of the tech that the data wasn't saved in transfer. Hum.

[Shiori]

I don't recall the details of the process being explained at length anywhere, and yet I came away with an impression of lots of emphasis on the pretty much instantaneous nature of the scan and neural flashing process. I suspect it's to give mind/brain dualism a little nook to hide in.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I don't recall the details of the process being explained at length anywhere, and yet I came away with an impression of lots of emphasis on the pretty much instantaneous nature of the scan and neural flashing process. I suspect it's to give mind/brain dualism a little nook to hide in.

So far our only hint towards the data-stream aspect of cloning is a brief passage in the Chronicle Jita 4-4 (it's near the very end); the passage comes in the context of a monologue by a capsuleer narrator and not an omniscient datadump,  but it's still pointed to a lot as a hint that the stream could be 'split'.

Regarding the Source comment: I don't think it says anything at all here to point towards "softscanned" or "split-from-burn-scanned" cloning either way. It just says they will "lose much time in the gap between her backup's creation and her new cloning". 'Backup creation' doesn't mean any method here at all.

[Jace]

I don't recall the details of the process being explained at length anywhere, and yet I came away with an impression of lots of emphasis on the pretty much instantaneous nature of the scan and neural flashing process. I suspect it's to give mind/brain dualism a little nook to hide in.

So far our only hint towards the data-stream aspect of cloning is a brief passage in the Chronicle Jita 4-4 (it's near the very end); the passage comes in the context of a monologue by a capsuleer narrator and not an omniscient datadump,  but it's still pointed to a lot as a hint that the stream could be 'split'.

Regarding the Source comment: I don't think it says anything at all here to point towards "softscanned" or "split-from-burn-scanned" cloning either way. It just says they will "lose much time in the gap between her backup's creation and her new cloning". 'Backup creation' doesn't mean any method here at all.

It was burnscanning to make a backup that I somehow missed previously. I always assumed burnscan was 1:1

[Saede Riordan]

At least we can say that backup clones exist in some form at least. That gives my 'lets clone everyone' RP a bit more credibility.

[Louella Dougans]

Backup clones have existed for years. They're in that "New Frontiers" mission chain. And they have memory gaps.

It's always been about the practicality, rather than the possibility. Clone vat machines, and the technicians that service them, and the biotechnicians that construct the clones and maintain them in readiness, these are not cheap and plentiful, never have been, unlikely they ever will. If it takes a team of say 20 people to maintain a backup clone of 1 individual all year round, then there's never going to be clone backups for everyone.

[Saede Riordan]

I always saw it as more of an economic bottleneck then an engineering one. You can clone everyone, its just expensive and there's not a lot of money in it.

[Samira Kernher]

I don't recall the details of the process being explained at length anywhere, and yet I came away with an impression of lots of emphasis on the pretty much instantaneous nature of the scan and neural flashing process. I suspect it's to give mind/brain dualism a little nook to hide in.

So far our only hint towards the data-stream aspect of cloning is a brief passage in the Chronicle Jita 4-4 (it's near the very end); the passage comes in the context of a monologue by a capsuleer narrator and not an omniscient datadump,  but it's still pointed to a lot as a hint that the stream could be 'split'.

Regarding the Source comment: I don't think it says anything at all here to point towards "softscanned" or "split-from-burn-scanned" cloning either way. It just says they will "lose much time in the gap between her backup's creation and her new cloning". 'Backup creation' doesn't mean any method here at all.

It was burnscanning to make a backup that I somehow missed previously. I always assumed burnscan was 1:1

By default the burning scanner is linked to molecular receptors in the clone brain, which is what makes it an instantaneous one-to-one transmission from neural scanner to brain. But again, it's just data. There's nothing stopping someone from implementing a 'middleman', having the burn scan instead entangled with a separate router box in a computer which saves a copy of the scan before sending it to the clone's receptor molecules.