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Author Topic: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!  (Read 5890 times)

Morwen Lagann

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #15 on: 04 Feb 2014, 10:06 »

It's behavior that's been part of how NPCs work for years - it's not even really -new- behavior either.

Calling this an exploit would be equivalent to calling someone a cheater for using a treadmill instead of going outside for a walk when the weather is too shitty to do so.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Jace

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #16 on: 04 Feb 2014, 10:26 »

It's behavior that's been part of how NPCs work for years - it's not even really -new- behavior either.

Calling this an exploit would be equivalent to calling someone a cheater for using a treadmill instead of going outside for a walk when the weather is too shitty to do so.

Treadmill users are anti-environmental antihumanists and should be prosecuted via unicorn trials.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #17 on: 04 Feb 2014, 11:21 »

We've discontinued the use of the ghost method for the time being. If CCP decides not to rule it an exploit or to stealth patch it, we can always pick it up again later.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #18 on: 06 Feb 2014, 20:09 »

Little heads up, the ghost method was ruled an exploit, I was banned for about three hours while CCP sorted itself out and realized we had in fact contacted them and played by the rules. The spy was revealed to be Astera Zandraki, working on behalf of Leopold Caine, and was subsequently kicked from corp and podded out of Origin. Her alt is still logged out, kicked from corp, under our tower in an Iteron V. So its only a matter of time before she logs that in and loses it as well. The situation is pretty much resolved. Its been a crazy couple of days.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #19 on: 07 Feb 2014, 07:40 »

Out of curiosity, how have you learned all that about the infiltrator and how he was related to Leo ?

Nice to hear that it has been sorted.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #20 on: 07 Feb 2014, 08:23 »

Astera's a known alt of someone who's been a close associate of Leo's for a very long while.

There's not that many people who would go through that much effort to cause a small-sized w-space corp - or Saede for that matter - that kind of trouble through poorly-executed espionage when an eviction op would've been more effective. Considering the action taken was to try and get her banned - a clearly OOC action - that really narrows it down even further as to who might engage in that kind of behavior.

The whole thing's pretty funny, considering how spectacularly it failed - including CCP's acknowledgement that their GMs fucked up in evaluating the situation.

Edit - I'll eat my words about it not being an exploit, I suppose, but I'm going to maintain that CCP now very clearly hates treadmill users in the polar regions. :psyccp:
« Last Edit: 07 Feb 2014, 08:25 by Morwen Lagann »
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Louella Dougans

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #21 on: 07 Feb 2014, 08:41 »

told you so.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #22 on: 07 Feb 2014, 08:45 »

Out of curiosity, how have you learned all that about the infiltrator and how he was related to Leo ?

Nice to hear that it has been sorted.

So now our corp has faced two sets of bads. Bai'xao and the failheist, and Leo and the failspai.

As for how exactly we went about identifying the infiltrator, we used a few methods.

First, we analyzed the image and were able to glean a rough join date within 2-3 months, so we knew how long the spy had been in corp and who had joined during that stretch. Second, we knew the timezone (GMT +1, which happens to include Croatia, where Leo is from) that either the spy or their employer was living in. Third, the nature of the leak in the first place, what the spy tried to do, how they acted, what they posted (Exploitylva Paradox, amirite?) was very clearly from the perspective of someone with a personal bone to pick with us/me. They also had to be someone with an ego such that they'd burn a spy under the assumption that they'd already won, just by getting that image. Now, the list of people who actually give enough of a fuck about us to do something like this, isn't terribly large. It's shrunk again by the lack of competence used by the spy. A better spy would have just tried to steal assets or lead in an eviction fleet. So we arrived pretty quickly at Leopold as the most likely client of the spy. From there it was easy.

For one, Astera is known to be Ishta Maleto's alt, long time friend of Leo. We knew this when we recruited her, we simply had hoped that she'd left her OOC associations with Leo behind, those associations wouldn't colour her membership, or that Leo gave as much of a fuck about us as we give about him. This was probably our biggest mistake, assuming if we ignored Leo he'd go away.
For two, Leo had in the past bragged about having a spy in our corporation. For three, if it was Leo, then Astera was the only path left for information to travel along, since Aphoxema had already left us and gone back to Stillwater.

told you so.

To some extent yes! You were right in that it was declared an exploit, and I was banned even. However, its clear that you were incorrect about CCP banning people ex post facto, and the reason I was banned was the the banning GMs probably hadn't communicated with the GMs we'd petitioned, once it was elevated, it was dealt with very quickly and I was unbanned within a few hours of being banned. Essentially, the ban was unintentional, and the result of a breakdown in communication with the GMs, not that I actually did anything wrong. I also have an inkling that Leo may have had his entire corp mass petition me, but I've of course no way to know that one way or the other.
« Last Edit: 07 Feb 2014, 08:49 by Saede Riordan »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #23 on: 07 Feb 2014, 08:56 »

Tbh it still feels more like you got lucky, knowing CCP. I agree with Louella.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #24 on: 07 Feb 2014, 09:10 »

Tbh it still feels more like you got lucky, knowing CCP. I agree with Louella.

Yes. I was right about GMs not having omniscient knowledge on what is and what is not intended mechanics, and that a "this is not an exploit, yet" is very wobbly ground to do anything on.

Also, rumours on other forums, regarding subscription numbers and retainment and so on. Banning someone from corporation X may cost subscriptions, banning someone from corporation Y is all OK, that sort of favouritism or perceived favouritism is a problem.

after all, bot users don't get permanently banned. They can petition after 6 months for unbanning. Bots, man.

Lyn's right about being lucky this time. If what people say is true, and CCP is concerned about subscriptions, then they'll be a lot more lenient than they could otherwise be.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #25 on: 07 Feb 2014, 11:30 »

Tbh it still feels more like you got lucky, knowing CCP. I agree with Louella.

Yes. I was right about GMs not having omniscient knowledge on what is and what is not intended mechanics, and that a "this is not an exploit, yet" is very wobbly ground to do anything on.

Also, rumours on other forums, regarding subscription numbers and retainment and so on. Banning someone from corporation X may cost subscriptions, banning someone from corporation Y is all OK, that sort of favouritism or perceived favouritism is a problem.

after all, bot users don't get permanently banned. They can petition after 6 months for unbanning. Bots, man.

Lyn's right about being lucky this time. If what people say is true, and CCP is concerned about subscriptions, then they'll be a lot more lenient than they could otherwise be.

Confirming irregular banning practices are entirely true, unfortunately. Experience talking here.

Re: Spais and stuff - if this is true and accurate, this is some pretty awful intel work. Who the hell doesn't blot out their timestamps?
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #26 on: 07 Feb 2014, 11:33 »

Who the hell doesn't blot out their timestamps?

Maxipad and/or Leo, apparently. :lol:
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Korsavius

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #27 on: 07 Feb 2014, 13:19 »

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Saede Riordan

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #28 on: 07 Feb 2014, 16:27 »

So, shit was crazy today. Caught Orion Scimatarii trying to make off with ships, he claimed innocence from inside another members pilgrim (=/). Independently of that Leopold contacted me and told me he had nothing to do with the spy issue, and gave me logs of Orion attempting to sell him the location of our highsec static. Had a pretty long conversation with Leo, and I don't really any longer think he's got an interest in wrecking us.

So it could be that Orion was behind the spy thing this entire time. We may never be sure. Tis the nature of the beast. I'm hoping that things finally quiet down now regardless.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Spies, exploits, and sleepers, Oh my!
« Reply #29 on: 07 Feb 2014, 18:03 »

Who knows, maybe you will find Istvaan in your proteus tomorrow.  :P
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