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[Saede Riordan]

Tasty, buttery, goodness

So lets see. This week, we've:

1 ) Found a cool tactic to kill sleepers, what we've named the 'Ghost Method'
2 ) Asked CCP if it was an exploit, they said it wasn't.
3 ) Applied Ghost Method as our operational standard.
4 ) Been killed by two gangs 10 times our size.
5 ) Made enough ISK for it to mostly not matter.
6 ) Planned an eviction war.
7 ) Found out we had someone leaking mails about 1).
8 ) Asked CCP again if it was an exploit.
9 ) Watched a famous Surely You're Joking solo pvper fly a (bait?) occator through his own bubbles. Twice.
10 ) Had above forum post poasted.
11 ) ???
12 ) Profit

[Louella Dougans]

multiple petitions to the GMs, all with the answer that it was all OK, did not help all those people banned for that moon mining exploit a couple years ago.

[Streya]

multiple petitions to the GMs, all with the answer that it was all OK, did not help all those people banned for that moon mining exploit a couple years ago.

So the GMs lied?

[Louella Dougans]

multiple petitions to the GMs, all with the answer that it was all OK, did not help all those people banned for that moon mining exploit a couple years ago.

So the GMs lied?

People found an odd behaviour with some moon mining POS.
They petitioned the GMs, and were told it was alright.
They petitioned again, because it still seemed weird, and were told it was alright, again.
So, they continue with their odd POS, and get banned for it later.

Same with that glitch with tracking in that other wormhole, allowing small guns to hit at 200km for wrecking damage. People petitioned, were told it's alright. Get banned for it later.

[Streya]

multiple petitions to the GMs, all with the answer that it was all OK, did not help all those people banned for that moon mining exploit a couple years ago.

So the GMs lied?

People found an odd behaviour with some moon mining POS.
They petitioned the GMs, and were told it was alright.
They petitioned again, because it still seemed weird, and were told it was alright, again.
So, they continue with their odd POS, and get banned for it later.

Same with that glitch with tracking in that other wormhole, allowing small guns to hit at 200km for wrecking damage. People petitioned, were told it's alright. Get banned for it later.

I'd like to see some citation. If this is so, there would have been forum outcry about the GMs lying. Furthermore, I know the corporation that lived in Nova and took advantage of the Magnetar system effects at the time. Aperture Harmonics is still quite alive and well.

[Alizabeth]

I've been watching this a while, actually.  I'm going to do some official poking tomorrow and see what is up.

[Louella Dougans]

multiple petitions to the GMs, all with the answer that it was all OK, did not help all those people banned for that moon mining exploit a couple years ago.

So the GMs lied?

People found an odd behaviour with some moon mining POS.
They petitioned the GMs, and were told it was alright.
They petitioned again, because it still seemed weird, and were told it was alright, again.
So, they continue with their odd POS, and get banned for it later.

Same with that glitch with tracking in that other wormhole, allowing small guns to hit at 200km for wrecking damage. People petitioned, were told it's alright. Get banned for it later.

I'd like to see some citation. If this is so, there would have been forum outcry about the GMs lying. Furthermore, I know the corporation that lived in Nova and took advantage of the Magnetar system effects at the time. Aperture Harmonics is still quite alive and well.

There was a lot of forum argument, about the moon mineral POS, and the reaction POS. Lots and lots of people arguing about it. It was a big debacle. Particularly, as only some of those who were using POS set up in that manner got bans, while others received no punishment. Big argument about CCP favouritism, as there were claims that many Band of Brothers POS were set up in this way. There was also an argument about the "e's and whizz" corporation and their alliance, it was claimed that's how they were able to provide booster drugs well below anyone else's prices.

And there was a lot of people saying "but we petitioned". Of course, since you're not allowed to share GM correspondence, those posts were quickly edited.

So, historically, it seems to be, that finding an exploit, using it, and encouraging others to use it, after being told by GMs that this is OK, has seldom worked out well for the people using the exploit.

And it's not the GMs lying. The GMs, contrary to popular belief, do not have an omniscient view on what is and what is not supposed to be "intended game mechanics". Neither do the game developers.


Also, your own posts on that thread said that the GMs told you they hadn't ruled it an exploit "yet".
Not that it was "OK to use".

Like I said, people were told such things about other weird situations, and later get bans.

[Arista Shahni]

At the very least,  keeping said info could likely have such bans removed, at least from you.

There's a Rooks and Kings video about the whole Magnetar thingy somewhere.

*digs*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYe_4vHzgE

Basically, something sounds like it was flipping a game engine numeric calculation in that situation to make "infinite" something or another.  If that could be what is happening, I'd use it with caution, as those are "bugs", as opposed to an "acceptable sneaky around the believed engagement tactics a player will use" as coding goes.  Broken code versus great tactic no one else has thought of that isn't 'breaking code', sort of deal.

[Morwen Lagann]

Right, so, as Saede can confirm, after checking a couple database numbers, I figured out exactly what the 'trick' that's being used is and how it works within game mechanics. In theory it should work on every single NPC in the game, not just Sleepers - and is also nothing new.

Without going into exact details of what they're doing, they're making a lot of tradeoffs to be able to even do this - and it takes a while doing it solo. If they fuck up, they kinda get vaporized. Quickly.

At worst, it's a bug and unintended behavior that'll be fixed at some point. At best, it's completely intended. However, by no means is it an exploit - I would be extremely surprised to see CCP classify it as such.

[Streya]

Right, so, as Saede can confirm, after checking a couple database numbers, I figured out exactly what the 'trick' that's being used is and how it works within game mechanics. In theory it should work on every single NPC in the game, not just Sleepers - and is also nothing new.

Without going into exact details of what they're doing, they're making a lot of tradeoffs to be able to even do this - and it takes a while doing it solo. If they fuck up, they kinda get vaporized. Quickly.

At worst, it's a bug and unintended behavior that'll be fixed at some point. At best, it's completely intended. However, by no means is it an exploit - I would be extremely surprised to see CCP classify it as such.

Confirming the bit about getting quickly vaporized. And if others player show up to violence at one's spaceship while they're doing this, it's all over. Marauder fleets are literally the quickest way to get these sites done.

At the end of the day even if it is ruled an exploit the real bottleneck in T3 industry is C320 and C540 gases. It won't be particularly crippling to our corp since we just happened on it recently, but it is pretty nice.

By chance are these database numbers from DaOpa?

[Lyn Farel]

So, another "RPer" is hiding behind an infiltrated alt to leak... compromising mails and cry all around how bad exploiters you are ? He surely must hate you 

That's rather hilarious.

[Saede Riordan]

To be completely honest, this is totally one of the reasons I love EVE so much. No other game would have anything like this happen in it. Its pretty great.

[Lyn Farel]

Well, as long as you have fun with it...

I find it deleterious in a RP community tbh.

[Saede Riordan]

Oh of course. If someone was outted for it, they'd probably be shuned by the RP community. You don't shit where you sleep.

[DeadRow]

At worst, it's a bug and unintended behavior that'll be fixed at some point. At best, it's completely intended. However, by no means is it an exploit - I would be extremely surprised to see CCP classify it as such.

It's exploiting if you are using a bug to your advantage, even if you have bug reported it. There have been plenty of examples in the past where people have bug reported it and continued to use it and got slapped by CCP. Saying 'But I reported it!' isn't a defence, so I'd just tread careful if I were you (ALXVP).

Good luck o7