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[Jace]

Agreed.

[Vic Van Meter]

:sad face: for Sci-Fi geeks.

Well, there's always Star Citizen hype if you're looking for it.  Honestly, though, just grabbing people and hitting an IMer is starting to get to be par for the course.  It's all I've been able to keep up with for the past few days.

Yay for 60hr work weeks...

[V. Gesakaarin]

I think in terms of the IP at present I just wish the dynamics of FW were more in sync between DUST and Eve. By that I mean that in DUST it's made pretty clear and obvious that you're just a mercenary and contractor fighting because it's in your interest. Right now in Eve though the implications where you're a commissioned officer lends some perceived legitimacy to some really idiotic concepts. It's about the only place where you can say, "Oh, I'm a Templis supporter" and hide behind the Caldari militia or alternatively, "I'm an open anti-slavery group" and then hide behind the 24IC which leads one to ask why the hell they'd commission people like that in the first place because the game mechanics let that happen.

[Publius Valerius]

:sad face: for Sci-Fi geeks.

Well, there's always Star Citizen hype if you're looking for it.  Honestly, though, just grabbing people and hitting an IMer is starting to get to be par for the course.  It's all I've been able to keep up with for the past few days.

Yay for 60hr work weeks...

to 60hr work weeks.


I understand the Star Citizen hype, even if I dont share it. Because currently they have 39 mio, but in the larger scale how games are made today it this sum nothing. Nevertheless I think a great game will come out. On another note, that people are willing to give that much money shows there is a market (enters Futurama meme: Shut up and take my money.). Maybe that would be a way to test things for EVE. Example: You like a better Charakter game play and "vanity suff"... here 500K+ would be the goal...etc...

Just thought I'd pop in and vote. I occasionally still visit. I've unsubbed from EVE completely. From failure to implement WiS to taking a royal sh*t on the lore and RPers in general, I finally gave in after 9 years and stopped my subscription.

Clearly EVE is about internet spaceships and player alliances. That's the new lore. Better get on that bandwagon now or find better.

As for me, doing one thing was just boring... I would say and suggest to any 0.0-bear and/or Goonsplayer and EVERYBODY ELSE, that he/she should also make another charakter with different goals and gamestyle; otherwise you miss much of the universe. As I mention before in this thread... even a large battle "with 100s of your "best" friends" can become deeply indifferent.1 A pew, pew fest before the unsubbing, but without any meaning or feelings. Just to get all the stuff out of the Hangar, before you leave and close the door behind you. Nevertheless I think too thats the way where CCP is going. More a "Hardcore 0.0-bear game", where big is beautiful. The scale will make the marketing (not the lore. So I was wrong.1). Sadly for all the work of the immersion team.

Generally I think we will see a stronger player spliting along the CCP products in the future. Somethings like:
EVE Online = Sandbox, Hardcore 0.0-bear. Time intensive PvP. Focus on anarchy and survival, as well as colonisation. etc...
World of Darkness = Sandbox, Roleplay, Theme-park, Coffee-shop... etc..
Dust 514 = First-person shooter. For casual game play? (even if the skill system is really bad as well as way to time and work consuming)?
Valkyre = Combat flight simulator. I would guess a light version of: War Thunder (without the three modes: Real, history...etc...) or Star Citizen (without the rest of the game like trade and minigames etc...)

As mention before I wait what will come, maybe one of the next expansion will hook me again. Nevertheless I think my next CCP game will be World of Darkness. By the way what book would a good starting point for the lore?

[Vic Van Meter]

:sad face: for Sci-Fi geeks.

Well, there's always Star Citizen hype if you're looking for it.  Honestly, though, just grabbing people and hitting an IMer is starting to get to be par for the course.  It's all I've been able to keep up with for the past few days.

Yay for 60hr work weeks...

to 60hr work weeks.


I understand the Star Citizen hype, even if I dont share it. Because currently they have 39 mio, but in the larger scale how games are made today it this sum nothing. Nevertheless I think a great game will come out. On another note, that people are willing to give that much money shows there is a market (enters Futurama meme: Shut up and take my money.). Maybe that would be a way to test things for EVE. Example: You like a better Charakter game play and "vanity suff"... here 500K+ would be the goal...etc...

Just thought I'd pop in and vote. I occasionally still visit. I've unsubbed from EVE completely. From failure to implement WiS to taking a royal sh*t on the lore and RPers in general, I finally gave in after 9 years and stopped my subscription.

Clearly EVE is about internet spaceships and player alliances. That's the new lore. Better get on that bandwagon now or find better.

As for me, doing one thing was just boring... I would say and suggest to any 0.0-bear and/or Goonsplayer and EVERYBODY ELSE, that he/she should also make another charakter with different goals and gamestyle; otherwise you miss much of the universe. As I mention before in this thread... even a large battle "with 100s of your "best" friends" can become deeply indifferent.1 A pew, pew fest before the unsubbing, but without any meaning or feelings. Just to get all the stuff out of the Hangar, before you leave and close the door behind you. Nevertheless I think too thats the way where CCP is going. More a "Hardcore 0.0-bear game", where big is beautiful. The scale will make the marketing (not the lore. So I was wrong.1). Sadly for all the work of the immersion team.

Generally I think we will see a stronger player spliting along the CCP products in the future. Somethings like:
EVE Online = Sandbox, Hardcore 0.0-bear. Time intensive PvP. Focus on anarchy and survival, as well as colonisation. etc...
World of Darkness = Sandbox, Roleplay, Theme-park, Coffee-shop... etc..
Dust 514 = First-person shooter. For casual game play? (even if the skill system is really bad as well as way to time and work consuming)?
Valkyre = Combat flight simulator. I would guess a light version of: War Thunder (without the three modes: Real, history...etc...) or Star Citizen (without the rest of the game like trade and minigames etc...)

As mention before I wait what will come, maybe one of the next expansion will hook me again. Nevertheless I think my next CCP game will be World of Darkness. By the way what book would a good starting point for the lore?

If you're looking for the old WoD (which is, I think, what the new game is based on), I'd probably start with the Vampire: the Masquarade sourcebook.  Vampires are what they're best known for, followed by Werewolf: the Apocalypse.  Those were more a series of thematically similar games ostensibly set in the same universe, but they weren't really meant to work with each other very well.  My favorite of the games was probably Wraith: the Oblivion, but it was so obtuse that they ended it with a gigantic storm and replaced it with a game about demons.  The books are probably a little harder to find; I assume they're out of print.

White Wolf put out a new series of games under the World of Darkness, where the best place to start is the actual World of Darkness sourcebook.  That has a set of common rules for all the games to operate under and tells you how to play a standard, run-of-the-mill fleshbag.  It's strange, as all the other books (the ones for the Vampires, Mages, Werewolves, etc.) I've read are kind of similar to each other.  The new Vampire: the Requiem has a clan you're born into, a covenant you choose to join, and you can further augment your clan with a bloodline.  The new Mage: the Awakening game has a path you are awakened into, an order you choose to join, and you can further augment your path with a legacy.  It's very similar, is what I'm saying.  It's not really a bad thing, but if you read the multiple sourcebooks, you start to get a real sense of deja vu.

It's definitely stronger than what you got reading through Vampire clans and Werewolf tribes, and even that seemed a little samey-sounding.

Anyway, those are good starting points.

[Jace]

IIRC, CCP's WoD game is explicitly based on V:tM. Start there, almost all of the important in-game lore will be from that series.

[Publius Valerius]

:sad face: for Sci-Fi geeks.

Well, there's always Star Citizen hype if you're looking for it.  Honestly, though, just grabbing people and hitting an IMer is starting to get to be par for the course.  It's all I've been able to keep up with for the past few days.

Yay for 60hr work weeks...

to 60hr work weeks.


I understand the Star Citizen hype, even if I dont share it. Because currently they have 39 mio, but in the larger scale how games are made today it this sum nothing. Nevertheless I think a great game will come out. On another note, that people are willing to give that much money shows there is a market (enters Futurama meme: Shut up and take my money.). Maybe that would be a way to test things for EVE. Example: You like a better Charakter game play and "vanity suff"... here 500K+ would be the goal...etc...

Just thought I'd pop in and vote. I occasionally still visit. I've unsubbed from EVE completely. From failure to implement WiS to taking a royal sh*t on the lore and RPers in general, I finally gave in after 9 years and stopped my subscription.

Clearly EVE is about internet spaceships and player alliances. That's the new lore. Better get on that bandwagon now or find better.

As for me, doing one thing was just boring... I would say and suggest to any 0.0-bear and/or Goonsplayer and EVERYBODY ELSE, that he/she should also make another charakter with different goals and gamestyle; otherwise you miss much of the universe. As I mention before in this thread... even a large battle "with 100s of your "best" friends" can become deeply indifferent.1 A pew, pew fest before the unsubbing, but without any meaning or feelings. Just to get all the stuff out of the Hangar, before you leave and close the door behind you. Nevertheless I think too thats the way where CCP is going. More a "Hardcore 0.0-bear game", where big is beautiful. The scale will make the marketing (not the lore. So I was wrong.1). Sadly for all the work of the immersion team.

Generally I think we will see a stronger player spliting along the CCP products in the future. Somethings like:
EVE Online = Sandbox, Hardcore 0.0-bear. Time intensive PvP. Focus on anarchy and survival, as well as colonisation. etc...
World of Darkness = Sandbox, Roleplay, Theme-park, Coffee-shop... etc..
Dust 514 = First-person shooter. For casual game play? (even if the skill system is really bad as well as way to time and work consuming)?
Valkyre = Combat flight simulator. I would guess a light version of: War Thunder (without the three modes: Real, history...etc...) or Star Citizen (without the rest of the game like trade and minigames etc...)

As mention before I wait what will come, maybe one of the next expansion will hook me again. Nevertheless I think my next CCP game will be World of Darkness. By the way what book would a good starting point for the lore?

If you're looking for the old WoD (which is, I think, what the new game is based on), I'd probably start with the Vampire: the Masquarade sourcebook.  Vampires are what they're best known for, followed by Werewolf: the Apocalypse.  Those were more a series of thematically similar games ostensibly set in the same universe, but they weren't really meant to work with each other very well.  My favorite of the games was probably Wraith: the Oblivion, but it was so obtuse that they ended it with a gigantic storm and replaced it with a game about demons.  The books are probably a little harder to find; I assume they're out of print.

White Wolf put out a new series of games under the World of Darkness, where the best place to start is the actual World of Darkness sourcebook.  That has a set of common rules for all the games to operate under and tells you how to play a standard, run-of-the-mill fleshbag.  It's strange, as all the other books (the ones for the Vampires, Mages, Werewolves, etc.) I've read are kind of similar to each other.  The new Vampire: the Requiem has a clan you're born into, a covenant you choose to join, and you can further augment your clan with a bloodline.  The new Mage: the Awakening game has a path you are awakened into, an order you choose to join, and you can further augment your path with a legacy.  It's very similar, is what I'm saying.  It's not really a bad thing, but if you read the multiple sourcebooks, you start to get a real sense of deja vu.

It's definitely stronger than what you got reading through Vampire clans and Werewolf tribes, and even that seemed a little samey-sounding.

Anyway, those are good starting points.

Im a chaep f**k  I will start with the wiki: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Clan_%28VTM%29 By the way those clans look like fun. I like the Nosferatu (ugly as hell, here I come ) and the Giovanni. Still reading throught the stuff.

IIRC, CCP's WoD game is explicitly based on V:tM. Start there, almost all of the important in-game lore will be from that series.

Thx. Both of you.


First I thought it would be like twilight: A bad vampire-romance-thingy, which is my- (and the younger-) generation vampire universe. Thankfully long time ago, someone already told me it isnt like twilight. So I would be ready for the ride. 

[Vic Van Meter]

First I thought it would be like twilight: A bad vampire-romance-thingy, which is my- (and the younger-) generation vampire universe. Thankfully long time ago, someone already told me it isnt like twilight. So I would be ready for the ride. 

I loved playing a Giovanni.  I constantly screwed with the mood by being upbeat and charming, like a used car salesman.  I annoyed our local Tremere.

It isn't like Twilight, but it is very thick on drama rather than asswhooping.  I did eventually make a V:tM book game about a group of lupine hunters solely so we had a hack-n-slash kind of game to do while we worked on our "mains".  Eventually, that game became our main game.  There's nothing more fun than happy-slapping a werewolf with level 5 Potence on top of 7 Strength (Hell yeah, legalized diablerie!)

Made all my dramatic machinations on other characters much less exciting.

[Jace]

V:tM was unbelievably well-done, absolutely nothing like Twilight vampires.

[Publius Valerius]

First I thought it would be like twilight: A bad vampire-romance-thingy, which is my- (and the younger-) generation vampire universe. Thankfully long time ago, someone already told me it isnt like twilight. So I would be ready for the ride. 

I loved playing a Giovanni.  I constantly screwed with the mood by being upbeat and charming, like a used car salesman.  I annoyed our local Tremere.

It isn't like Twilight, but it is very thick on drama rather than asswhooping.  I did eventually make a V:tM book game about a group of lupine hunters solely so we had a hack-n-slash kind of game to do while we worked on our "mains".  Eventually, that game became our main game.  There's nothing more fun than happy-slapping a werewolf with level 5 Potence on top of 7 Strength (Hell yeah, legalized diablerie!)

Made all my dramatic machinations on other characters much less exciting.

I got/understood just nothing  But it sounds like fun.

As for the drama over asswhooping/4chanism. I dont mind some new drama. Not that EVE is without one, but after a while you have heared already everything (Death horse thing); and you start to troll/kill/dying/wining/lossing/etc out of boredom.

[Lyn Farel]

Yeah Vampire is a lot more like a good old Victorian/Lestat rather than a Twilight... ._.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

If you're looking for the old WoD (which is, I think, what the new game is based on), I'd probably start with the Vampire: the Masquarade sourcebook.  Vampires are what they're best known for, followed by Werewolf: the Apocalypse.  Those were more a series of thematically similar games ostensibly set in the same universe, but they weren't really meant to work with each other very well. My favorite of the games was probably Wraith: the Oblivion, but it was so obtuse that they ended it with a gigantic storm and replaced it with a game about demons.  The books are probably a little harder to find; I assume they're out of print.

White Wolf put out a new series of games under the World of Darkness, where the best place to start is the actual World of Darkness sourcebook.  That has a set of common rules for all the games to operate under and tells you how to play a standard, run-of-the-mill fleshbag.  It's strange, as all the other books (the ones for the Vampires, Mages, Werewolves, etc.) I've read are kind of similar to each other.  The new Vampire: the Requiem has a clan you're born into, a covenant you choose to join, and you can further augment your clan with a bloodline.  The new Mage: the Awakening game has a path you are awakened into, an order you choose to join, and you can further augment your path with a legacy.  It's very similar, is what I'm saying.  It's not really a bad thing, but if you read the multiple sourcebooks, you start to get a real sense of deja vu.

It's definitely stronger than what you got reading through Vampire clans and Werewolf tribes, and even that seemed a little samey-sounding.

Anyway, those are good starting points.

The bit in bold is why when I found out CCP had bought White Wolf and, presumably, they would be having a fair bit of influence over the development of EVE's background I was filled with a cold sense of dread.

It always seemed to be that White Wolf back in the day took a similar approach to world building that Russell T. Davies took to writing Doctor Who. They just jumped on the shiny, regardless of if it fitted or made any sort of coherent sense. And they couldn't edit for toffee.

That said I liked running Werewolf (because furry Klingons have a certain appeal) and Mage (largely because of the Sons of Ether). I think were they went wrong was loosing the shades of grey approach to games past Vampire in the old World of Darkness.

Even the Sabbat had their good points. But they never really tried to present a sympathetic view of Wyrm cultists or the Black Spiral Dancers. Further they consistently painted the Technocracy as evil, rather than misguided and corrupted. Lastly they clearly had favoured clans, tribes and traditions.

[Vic Van Meter]

If you're looking for the old WoD (which is, I think, what the new game is based on), I'd probably start with the Vampire: the Masquarade sourcebook.  Vampires are what they're best known for, followed by Werewolf: the Apocalypse.  Those were more a series of thematically similar games ostensibly set in the same universe, but they weren't really meant to work with each other very well. My favorite of the games was probably Wraith: the Oblivion, but it was so obtuse that they ended it with a gigantic storm and replaced it with a game about demons.  The books are probably a little harder to find; I assume they're out of print.

White Wolf put out a new series of games under the World of Darkness, where the best place to start is the actual World of Darkness sourcebook.  That has a set of common rules for all the games to operate under and tells you how to play a standard, run-of-the-mill fleshbag.  It's strange, as all the other books (the ones for the Vampires, Mages, Werewolves, etc.) I've read are kind of similar to each other.  The new Vampire: the Requiem has a clan you're born into, a covenant you choose to join, and you can further augment your clan with a bloodline.  The new Mage: the Awakening game has a path you are awakened into, an order you choose to join, and you can further augment your path with a legacy.  It's very similar, is what I'm saying.  It's not really a bad thing, but if you read the multiple sourcebooks, you start to get a real sense of deja vu.

It's definitely stronger than what you got reading through Vampire clans and Werewolf tribes, and even that seemed a little samey-sounding.

Anyway, those are good starting points.

The bit in bold is why when I found out CCP had bought White Wolf and, presumably, they would be having a fair bit of influence over the development of EVE's background I was filled with a cold sense of dread.

It always seemed to be that White Wolf back in the day took a similar approach to world building that Russell T. Davies took to writing Doctor Who. They just jumped on the shiny, regardless of if it fitted or made any sort of coherent sense. And they couldn't edit for toffee.

That said I liked running Werewolf (because furry Klingons have a certain appeal) and Mage (largely because of the Sons of Ether). I think were they went wrong was loosing the shades of grey approach to games past Vampire in the old World of Darkness.

Even the Sabbat had their good points. But they never really tried to present a sympathetic view of Wyrm cultists or the Black Spiral Dancers. Further they consistently painted the Technocracy as evil, rather than misguided and corrupted. Lastly they clearly had favoured clans, tribes and traditions.

It was also a bit weird having to play that the end times were definitely upon us.  It's the one thing I almost always downplayed or completely ignored, and I wasn't the only one.  The idea that the end of the world was imminent (and we had lore evidence of it!) was present in every single game.  It was also the least interesting part, considering WW's original games just weren't gather-the-party-go-on-a-quest games.  It almost set you up with an endpoint that nobody had the inclination to really include.

That said, I loved Wraith to death.  The idea of playing your own villains and stumbling over yourself intentionally was great.  Wasn't necessarily the easiest game, since it purposefully set you up with a character who REALLY NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING, and yet you yourself were supposed to interfere with and torment your own character.  Damn fun with the right group.

Of the new WoD batch, so far I've read the Vamp and Mage books.  They're not bad, in any way.  I'd say if one thing has been expanded, it's the setting.  I think it gives you a broader range of tools and less in the way of prejudices, so you can get more variety out of them and the Storyteller gets more control over what kind of game to run.  I guess it's just such a big change, reducing the sort of enforced zeitgeist of the inevitable slide towards the beast and setting it up to be a bit more vague.  I know it pissed off some of the old-school Camarilla and Sabbat types I used to LARP with.

Maybe I'm a bit more forgiving about the new direction because I was always a fan of that old-school dungeon crawl, whether it was D&D or later Shadowrun infiltration ops.  Eventually, all pretentiousness aside, I just want to roll out and roflpwn.

I still hate Mitsuhama.