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[Victoria Stecker]

Only 16 down for CFCRUS? I heard 25-30 elsewhere. I'm surprised that number is so low.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'm not sure what the solution is.  There's just generally a difference between a 'fleet' looking space battle as you might see in popular fiction and the 'dumped the toybox' look of larger eve capital fights.

There must be some way of the game engine to subtlety encourage groupings of ships.  Make it a gang feature that ships in certain formations start to have a synergy for x stats or whatever.   Maybe not armor or shield but perhaps targeting efficiency or target broadcasting, who knows. 

It just might be neat to see the larger capital fleets with some semblance of order, or even the smaller ships. 

And I'd love for extra graphical business for ships that are aligned.  5 titans in a special alignment using doomsday gives you a super cool 'mega doomsday' effect where they all focus fire deathstar style or something.  Don't tell me that wouldn't be cool?

[Makoto Priano]

I may or may not have been hitting F5 a lot at work yesterday. Fun seeing the counts! And I've got to say, it was hilarious reading TMC's updates-- an abject lesson in media literacy and spinmeistering.

Admittedly, by the end, no particular spin was needed-- but I wonder how much of PL's poor US TZ reinforcement showing was because people were using TMC as a news source, and TMC was reporting that N3/S2N staging systems were camped down.

Anyone else entertained by the tritanium price volatility in the last day?

[Morwen Lagann]

I'm more entertained (and, really, pleased) by the fact that for all the horrible gameplay experience that that clusterfuck must have been, the rest of the cluster was chugging along just fine. Wouldn't have even known shit was going on if not for other people talking about it.

CCP's come a long way in that department, that's for sure.

[Alain Colcer]

so wished CCP implemented a sort of "terrain" distribution across a system or constellation, and gravity thresholds so blobs could not go further than some arbitrary size.

[Silas Vitalia]

so wished CCP implemented a sort of "terrain" distribution across a system or constellation, and gravity thresholds so blobs could not go further than some arbitrary size.

This is extremely hard to implement because then it's all a matter of being the first fleet in system to push the maximum allowed group size and keep your enemies out. :/

[kalaratiri]

High quality footage courtesy of Rooks and Kings.

Don't worry, it's only 4 minutes long

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCK-E5AopVI

[V. Gesakaarin]

I think strategically fights like this occur because there's no real need not to fight pitched battles and that it's rather easy to escalate an engagement once it starts so long as you're within jump range.

[Morwen Lagann]

I think strategically fights like this occur because there's no real need not to fight pitched battles and that it's rather easy to escalate an engagement once it starts so long as you're within jump range.

And getting within jump range isn't very difficult for coalitions of that size even if they're starting at the other end of the cluster.

Makes me wonder if perhaps jump drives need a special timer in Crimewatch. Wouldn't help too much once the fight is going on and is tidi'd to shit, but maybe it'd help slow down some of the force projection issues without completely wrecking the point of having a jump drive in the first place.

[V. Gesakaarin]

I think strategically fights like this occur because there's no real need not to fight pitched battles and that it's rather easy to escalate an engagement once it starts so long as you're within jump range.

And getting within jump range isn't very difficult for coalitions of that size even if they're starting at the other end of the cluster.

Makes me wonder if perhaps jump drives need a special timer in Crimewatch. Wouldn't help too much once the fight is going on and is tidi'd to shit, but maybe it'd help slow down some of the force projection issues without completely wrecking the point of having a jump drive in the first place.

There's also the fact that CCP introduced the same dynamics as the old Naval arms race with Battleships, because the only thing that could conceivably engage a Battleship was another Battleship. In much the same way, once someone deploys hundreds of capitals/supercaps in Eve then the only counter is hundreds of capitals/supercaps.

This seems to have been contrary to what was said in RMR where Capitals were envisioned as niche support craft either supporting a subcap fleet with reps or making it easier to shoot towers. These days with a 1bil dread/carrier being relatively affordable it seems to have created the situation we're in now  where sentry carriers can blap subcap fleets off the field and the only solution to that is dropping dreads because there's just too much HP on the field otherwise.

[Makoto Priano]

Random aside, on the original topic. What I'd love to get from CCP is an estimate of the amount of hours of mining time required to construct the ships, assuming perfect efficiency mining with boosts, and perfect refining. All of the estimates so far are using PLEX prices as a means to convert to a common currency, which is nifty and all but still doesn't make the time investment completely clear to readers outside of EVE. Even if these ships have accumulated in surprising number in the past four or five years, they still represent a considerable accumulation of labor.

[Lyn Farel]

I'm not sure what the solution is.  There's just generally a difference between a 'fleet' looking space battle as you might see in popular fiction and the 'dumped the toybox' look of larger eve capital fights.

There must be some way of the game engine to subtlety encourage groupings of ships.  Make it a gang feature that ships in certain formations start to have a synergy for x stats or whatever.   Maybe not armor or shield but perhaps targeting efficiency or target broadcasting, who knows. 

It just might be neat to see the larger capital fleets with some semblance of order, or even the smaller ships. 

And I'd love for extra graphical business for ships that are aligned.  5 titans in a special alignment using doomsday gives you a super cool 'mega doomsday' effect where they all focus fire deathstar style or something.  Don't tell me that wouldn't be cool?

Well I would be in charge of the art direction, I would bang my head against my deck seeing this spilled toy box effect tbh.

They could just implement line of sight for example. Behind a friend or another target ? You can't fire on target unless you move around. It would force big formations to be clever and use different kind of formations to maximize the spread of their firepower. It would lead to pinch tactics, spherical formations, wall formations, etc.

The other issue is also that since they are in siege or triage for most of them, they do not move.

[V. Gesakaarin]

Eve really doesn't have things like firing arcs to make tactical formations necessary to maximize firepower and the like nor does it take place at (relatively) long ranges where both distance and speed can be factors. Sure, if Eve spaceships had high speeds and low weapon ranges you'd probably see fleets having to maneuver around each other tactically in order to engage each other.

As it is Eve is just a reflection of the tools that are given. I'm also not sure why spaceship wars have to be "pretty" in any way either. Trafalgar probably wasn't pretty with it descending into a ship-of-the-line melee of sorts but in the end Nelson still beat the French.

[Lyn Farel]

I find it rather pretty and majestuous, even if monstruous in some kind of way.

Eve spacefights feel completely bland in contrast.

[V. Gesakaarin]

There's a reason I prefer small scale frig/dessie/cruiser PvP in Eve because it feels far more exciting and tactical where the situation can change rapidly and small decisions, like someone managing to intercept the orbit of that EWAR frig, or properly managing your range beyond other people's guns can actually have an impact on a fight beyond numbers, HP, and rep which are the only real considerations the larger a fight scales up.

I suppose it's just a question of what size PvP you enjoy and where you do it. That and if you're able to handle the fact that for me anyway, Eve isn't about war with the human drama, it's about war that's cold, clinical and calculating that is deliberately inhuman, distant, and on an industrial scale and method.