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Author Topic: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced  (Read 9877 times)

Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #45 on: 04 Dec 2013, 23:41 »

You also forgot something else in your math regarding solar panels, Esna: by that point, it's not unreasonable that advancements in energy usage would also have been made. Odds are you'd be looking at not only more efficient solar panels, but far more efficient devices that use the power coming from them.

Actually I didn't; I tripled my expected output from modern-day panels to account for advances in technology.

NERD CLARIFICATION TIME

I'm shocked orange hasn't already pointed this out.

Esna, do your calculations take into account the probably folded up and covered state of the solar panels? The image clearly mentions that they are covered at the moment by a protective shroud. How do you know how big they are when fully extended and deployed ala modern solar panels on the ISS, Mir, and Skylab? Those panels in real life weren't fully extended on launch.

The shroud blister is clearly thick enough to contain some serious panel folding inside it, and that's not even including the possibility that there would be even more layers folded and tucked deeper into the hull behind the blister. For all you know they could extend hundreds of meters out with both sides providing power and rotating to face the nearest light source. Then you can also imagine they are far more efficient than today's solar panels.

NERD REANALYSIS TIME

Actually I'd considered this, but disregarded it on account of a couple of things.

First is the actual shape and placement of the panel covers. They are considerably wider than they are long, yet are stacked quite close together; this means they cannot effectively be turned off their axis far before occluding one another (or worse yet, crashing into each other). The remaining options are to mount each on an adjustable arm to 'fan' them out or use the ship's thrusters to re-orient itself to a better angle; I admit the former is a possibility, but I discarded the latter because of point #2...

The purpose of the hull: We are operating here under the assumption that the Nestor is intended to operate in unsafe zones (hence being a hybrid battleship-medboat, rather than a pure unarmed medboat), and that the purpose (as stated above) of deploying solar panels would be to 'go silent' and avoid contact with potential hostile elements. However, large deployed photovoltaics are a truly terrible way of doing this: They will likely reflect large amounts of radiation* (particularly in the microwave and radio spectrums, critical to avoiding contact with RADAR-using hostiles, but also in other spectra as well). We don't exactly know how Gallente Magnetometric scanners work, but I dare say that extending a large surface bearing a large number of electrical conduits won't exactly be stealthy there either.

I'd note at this point that we do often see solar harvesters in EVE: They appear in missions, anomaly/complexes, and other deadspace sites. However, they're universally attached to static facilities that aren't going anywhere and are already quite un-stealthy by merit of their size. This doesn't seem to jive with the concept of the panels as a 'quieter' option to the Nestor's main power plant.

* Footnote: Interestingly, a good portion of the reflected radiation from solar panels appears to come not from the photovoltaic itself, but from the protective cover they are encased in. This is especially important in space, where protection against micrometeorites and debris is necessary. A great deal of current research towards panel efficiency involves decreasing that reflection, and I think it is safe to assume that a radically more efficient panel would reflect far, far less.

oh lord what hath I wrought?
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #46 on: 04 Dec 2013, 23:46 »

Keep in mind I was imagining the med pods being completely jettisoned from the ship in case of emergency. I think we're over-analyzing this now though. They are solar panels, and they are there. We can argue back and forth on the whys and what-fors, but in the end we only get what we see.

We can either allow our immersion to be broken, or suspend disbelief. I choose the latter.

Korsavius

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #47 on: 05 Dec 2013, 00:48 »

Kor, it's not zero-gravity technology. Zero-G is a Caldari corporation that designed the Sisters' new external warp rings.

Whose to say it can't produce an artificial gravity field as well? Zero-G is a Caldari corporation, after all. Efficiency is the name of the game. :-)
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #48 on: 05 Dec 2013, 01:01 »

Kor, it's not zero-gravity technology. Zero-G is a Caldari corporation that designed the Sisters' new external warp rings.

Whose to say it can't produce an artificial gravity field as well? Zero-G is a Caldari corporation, after all. Efficiency is the name of the game. :-)

Because then if you're producing artificial gravity, it ceases to be zero-gravity. Also, almost all ships have internal gravity. They don't need a big fat ring to do it.

The point is that the mention of "ZG Technology" doesn't mean zero-gravity technology. It means technology developed by Zero-G Corporation.

Korsavius

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #49 on: 05 Dec 2013, 01:30 »

Kor, it's not zero-gravity technology. Zero-G is a Caldari corporation that designed the Sisters' new external warp rings.

Whose to say it can't produce an artificial gravity field as well? Zero-G is a Caldari corporation, after all. Efficiency is the name of the game. :-)

Because then if you're producing artificial gravity, it ceases to be zero-gravity. Also, almost all ships have internal gravity. They don't need a big fat ring to do it.

The point is that the mention of "ZG Technology" doesn't mean zero-gravity technology. It means technology developed by Zero-G Corporation.

Fair enough. The rest of my comments still stand.
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Tiberious Thessalonia

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #50 on: 05 Dec 2013, 01:35 »

NERD ANALYSIS TIME

You are all nerds give me your lunch monies
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Do you see it now?  Something is different.  Something is never was in the first part!

Korsavius

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #51 on: 05 Dec 2013, 01:40 »

NERD ANALYSIS TIME

You are all nerds give me your lunch monies

Good thing I always pack my lunch...


................................................... \o)
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Myyona

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #52 on: 05 Dec 2013, 04:10 »

Meh. I see no reason why I should pay 600,000 LP for this faction ship in high sec when I can get others for 500,000 LP. :|

After 3-4 months and we are done with the initial rush, what exactly warrant the additional cost?
« Last Edit: 05 Dec 2013, 04:11 by Myyona »
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Saikoyu

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #53 on: 05 Dec 2013, 06:44 »

Because its looks really cool? That's all I'd ever buy one for.  Well, yeah, and to run sites and such, but it looking cool is why I'd choose it over something that could probably do the same job 3/4ths as well at 1/2 the cost. 

And I wonder if they will release the little shuttle they show int he picture.  Looks neat. 
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Myyona

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #54 on: 05 Dec 2013, 06:54 »

Considering that design philosophy for the Nestor apparently is purposely "all over the place", I suspect you can find another ship doing the job better at 1/2-1/10 the cost.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #55 on: 05 Dec 2013, 10:44 »

NERD ANALYSIS TIME

You are all nerds give me your lunch monies

Pfah! I am a HOLDER! I do not buy my lunch! Each individual meal is prepared by a team of the most elite cooks and staff in the cluster, etc etc....


And yeah, that was exceedingly silly. No, I'm not actually rabble about there being solar panels - I just like debating about the random absurdities of sci-fi spaceship design.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Silas Vitalia

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #56 on: 05 Dec 2013, 10:57 »

Look.

People have been drawing spaceships and drawing little arrows at parts of them and labeling them with ridiculous shit for many years.

Growing up in the 80s and 90s I remember all sorts of Star Wars ships that had ridiculous made up technology added after the fact to try and fill up 'blueprints' of the movie ships.

Oh, that uh, little nubby there on the ship? that's the such and such. very important.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #57 on: 05 Dec 2013, 11:01 »

I heard recently that new technologies on solar pannels produce 100 times more than the current tech... So... vOv
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kalaratiri

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #58 on: 05 Dec 2013, 14:44 »

Minor update 1

Quote from: CCP Rise
Hi hi

I haven't been in the office today so sorry for the break in communication. I'm still not in actually, so I don't have time to go into tons of depth here but I wanted to address a few of the trends I see so far in the feedback.

First, I think we should get some kind of range bonus on the reps. 100% sounds about right, but we need to talk about this as a team before anything gets committed to. I'll get back to you once we can figure out where to go.

Second, It's really not getting a covert cloak . This is an extremely powerful capability and it's possible that it should stay off limits for battleships completely. On top of that, if there was going to be a covert battleship, black ops is where we need to start. We will be looking at them for a balance pass eventually, they are one of the remaining classes that haven't gotten their tiericide pass yet, and we can approach this topic when that happens.

Last, I'm seeing some complaints or concerns that it feels kind of all over the place. This is definitely intentional. In the posts for the Stratios and Astero I think I mentioned that one of the designs we are trying to emulate is the Gnosis. Ships capable of doing many things but being the absolute best for few. The hacking and probing bonuses are a good example of that here. We didn't choose them over something else that would make the ship a powerful fighter, we just included them to give the ship more options.

I'll be back in the office tomorrow and I'll catch up on the thread fully and try to cover anything big that I missed here.

Minor update 2

Quote from: CCP Rise
Okay, another short update:

Adding role bonus: 100% bonus to remote armor repairer range

We agreed that this will make quality of life a lot better when attempting to use the remote repair bonus without adding too much power.

Possibly a more detailed post in a couple hours regarding the discussion on black ops/bridging/cloaking and the all-over-the-place design, but I'm super busy atm and just wanted to make sure you guys knew about this change as soon as possible.

Thanks
« Last Edit: 05 Dec 2013, 14:49 by kalaratiri »
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"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani

Korsavius

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Re: Eve Down Under: SOE Battleship Nestor announced
« Reply #59 on: 05 Dec 2013, 14:53 »

Hooray!! It is slightly more appealing now in terms of PvE and PvP usage. :) (also probably going to be more expensive now, too QQ)
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