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[Vic Van Meter]

So am I the only one that enjoys RP as a pastime and doesn't see these issues? 

RolePLAYING

Play.  Seriously, laugh about it and have fun \o/
Haters: No Ayallah, You are stupid idiot because you are!  You could not possibly do the things you say!

Me: Weeeeeeeeeeee!!!!   Spaaaaaaceeeee  Draaaaaammaaaaa laaaamaaa

Ride the space drama lama.  It is live action acting with also spaceships
How fucking cool is that

I mean, I tend to ignore it, but then again I do this part time and RP more regularly elsewhere.  Even then, I've definitely noticed it.  Maybe it's because I have so much outside experience?  It's definitely palpable.

[Isis Dea]

Pardon my EVElike bluntness but... what?

If you're dealing with, as you perceive it, a "shitty group" of RPers, and at the same time see yourself above such a thing, why use a shitty tactic?  I really don't get it, Isis.  I mean, I know enough toknow you busted your ass to set up somethign very cool that would have enhanced the RP community as a whole, but your entrey was somethign so alienating as to leave a group of people (namely, EVE players first, RPers second) to leave themselves thinking that you're, for lack of a better term, a bitter player with a full intent to troll and insult the very community - or people within it - who would have been interacting with anything that you spent hours/days creating.  I remember the website you made for what can and will be an awesome RP location in a community that, in my opinion, is nearly starving for more local "public" locations other than the smalltalk of the Summit, and it seems that your introduction was little more than a bitter angry and pretty close to (if not outright) hostile reaction to the very people that would be attending.

Backstage isn't some singular clique of superfriends in a mutual appreciation society, despite what anyone else may whisper about it in private channels, it is a large swath of players from many cliques - some who interact, some who lurk and simply read and keep an eye on what everyone else is doing.  As an example, I probably RP with any consistently maybe half of a dozen of the people here, and there are certainly more than half a dozen posting, and many, many more reading. 

Coming in swinging was one of the worst tactics you could have taken on the matter.  You arrived assuming everyone hated you, and expressed the opinion that you hated everyone else. 

I've known you before all this nonsense, and this is not the person you are.  Hell, you're on my Skype, and that's one of two whole people who have my Skype info from EVE. 

It may be the person your character is to act in a certain manner, but unless my judgement of your personal character is wrong (as in OOC), this is definitely not the person you are.  No one here as far as I am aware was going to jump on you.  No one had any prejudices about you before you arrived.  In fact, long before you arrived here Backstage and were posting on IGS I was defending you in the channels that you despise and pointing out that this is your character, and not yourself.

Again, unless I am a horrific judge of character, you punched out, by accident, a large group of innocent people who had no preconcieved notions OOC as to who you are.

Call this tough love hon.  This is not some closed circle of elistist egotistical assholes who want to hurt people for fun.  Treating EVE players that way though is a pretty well known way to create a self fulfilling prophecy.

Let me clarify because I think you're misunderstanding. I've been referring to the trend of RP that occurs on the IGS. As OP puts it, it's very much degraded from the days of old. These days you brawl sarcasm, jabs left and right from killboards to OOC assumptions. A lot of things that in a typically RP community you wouldn't have to, yet this is EVE.

So… You're looking to join in. But you know your alter-ego character is someone who'd get ripped up alive in such a community. But you don't run, it's supposed to be inviting of everyone, so you add a little stubbornness that you typically don't include within your character as means to survive.

That's all I was saying. I apologize for using terms like OOC to describe untraditional. I make this argument in saying people shouldn't have to tailor their characters to brawl for the welcome community. I argue that's when you're dealing with shitty RPers who might also be wondering why RP has actually degraded to a "meh" state. If you kill off all the new blood before or during their attempt to stand out, you're practically slicing up any hope of new RP.

[Morwen Lagann]

I think the lesson to take away should be "the IGS is a shitty place to break out into RP in EVE, maybe I should pick something other than a forum that's basically an IC version of CAOD and C&P".

Not whatever it is you seem to have taken.

[Graelyn]

(edit: meh)

[Merdaneth]

I think the lesson to take away should be "the IGS is a shitty place to break out into RP in EVE, maybe I should pick something other than a forum that's basically an IC version of CAOD and C&P".

IGS suits EVE perfectly. It has a high learning curve, and lots of people waiting in the wings to scam you or shoot you down if you aren't paying attention to what you do. You will be taught harsh lessons quickly. If you prepare well and learn from your mistakes, you'll do fine. If you approach the IGS with an attitude of 'low-sec and null is full of griefers', then you'll likely not get much fun out of it.

[Merdaneth]

Let me clarify because I think you're misunderstanding. I've been referring to the trend of RP that occurs on the IGS. As OP puts it, it's very much degraded from the days of old. These days you brawl sarcasm, jabs left and right from killboards to OOC assumptions. A lot of things that in a typically RP community you wouldn't have to, yet this is EVE.

Can someone give me examples of those mythical days of old? When was the time there weren't jabs left and right?

[Merdaneth]

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=25514

Seems pretty much like it was when I joined.

[Merdaneth]

The situation at my IGS participation start:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3520&page=201

[Lyn Farel]

The IGS hasnt changed much.

So… You're looking to join in. But you know your alter-ego character is someone who'd get ripped up alive in such a community. But you don't run, it's supposed to be inviting of everyone, so you add a little stubbornness that you typically don't include within your character as means to survive.

Usually, the more stubborn and opinionated, the more a character attracts flak... I would argue that the best way of survival is open mindedness and playing someone extremely modest... Not that it's the way to go, but it surely makes things easier especially when being a newcomer.

[Arista Shahni]

I was never torn apart.

For the record, Ari despite her Amarrian politeneness - IS AMARRIAN.  And worse, Dark Amarr.  I spent  months with people unsure of what to make of Arista.  I didn't get to burst into the scene and yell opinions I could not back up with experience - in space or in RP interaction.  EVE RP moves at a minute a minute.

"When you kill a thousand baseliners a day, it costs nothing to be polite".  Its a common stated phrase.  Sure there are going to be people who speak out -- but 90% of the time they are people speaking from positions on in-game backup ability.

That, perhaps, is the hard part for people to see - esp[ecially new players such as the OP.

the OP had issues cause they bashed heads with members of AP - a WELL established wormhole corporation - not one or two people living in a make pretend wormhole that no one else gives a fuck about.  They fight every day to keep their space.  So their IC attitudes will reflect this, as in game actions ARE IC.

Is Tibby and the TS-F memebers a pack of meanies? They're a pirate corporation that eats people for breakfast.  They ALSO fight for their space -- and not just from rolep[layers willing to fly and fight the Ebil Sansha Loyalists.

The list goes on.

EVERYONE, without fail, who talks smack, and can not back it up in space, is smacked verbally with the ultimate intent to encourage these people to literally undock and bring it.  This is EVE.  Can I capitalise EVE more? THIS IS EVE.  EVE is not an RP environment where we're all killing the same Raidbosses every week.

We ARE the raidbosses.  Or the dungeon trash. Take your pick.

Though there ARE "pure RP" encounters, they are EVE's exception - not its rule.

(in a fucking shit mood. Yay RL.)

[Iwan Terpalen]

EVERYONE, without fail, who talks smack, and can not back it up in space, is smacked verbally..

..sometimes with the intent to encourage them to "bring it", but more usually just to appease the smacker's baser urges to humiliate or demean.

[Saede Riordan]

I think the lesson to take away should be "the IGS is a shitty place to break out into RP in EVE, maybe I should pick something other than a forum that's basically an IC version of CAOD and C&P".

IGS suits EVE perfectly. It has a high learning curve, and lots of people waiting in the wings to scam you or shoot you down if you aren't paying attention to what you do. You will be taught harsh lessons quickly. If you prepare well and learn from your mistakes, you'll do fine. If you approach the IGS with an attitude of 'low-sec and null is full of griefers', then you'll likely not get much fun out of it.

This is really describes it pretty succinctly. The IGS isn't the forum for some other game, its EVE. If you go and make posts with the attitude you do on any other part of the EVE-O Forum except maybe the New Player section, you'll get chewed up and spit out. Why should the IGS be any different? The IGS is just another reflection of the game itself.

[Isis Dea]

And this is why we can't have nice things. Or moreso, RP doesn't occur at the scales you see in other games, and also why you don't see a lot of variation/new blood in RP here. Those claim of the older days typically reference a time I think when the community was more inviting or accommodating. However present day I think people would rather go to other games for trying to orchestrate any public story arc or live effect to fight a common foe.

Sure the RP might be fitting to the game but it is still shitty RP.

As for those saying, "just go elsewhere" -that's cool, I will make presence elsewhere if folks want to see me there. But I'm not going to stop rubbing it in on official forums. For coming from someone who doesn't believe the golden days of EVE RP are over, someone who's been playing since 2004, I think our community can be better than the nature of the game.

And in light of how CCP is treating the lore recently, that is my only hope.

[V. Gesakaarin]

Golden days of RP?

Oh, how the Bitching section of the old chatsubo has sunk beneath the waves of nostalgia. 

[Louella Dougans]

If you kill off all the new blood before or during their attempt to stand out, you're practically slicing up any hope of new RP.

the unfortunate thing though, is that it makes sense to do that, in a lot of circumstances.

E.g. in Amarr RP, one of the main RP enemies are the heretics of the Sani Sabik. When a new Sani Sabik cult character/corporation crops up, it is logical and reasonable for the Imperial Amarr to try and stamp it out before it gets out of hand. To employ disproportionate response, to crush the heretics before they persuade more to their cause, and all that.

There are other situations where that's the case too. In-character, people have a lot of good reasons to crush any outbreaks of things, and yet that is often counter-productive out-of-character.