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Author Topic: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID  (Read 19291 times)

Synthia

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #60 on: 07 Nov 2013, 16:00 »

Was the structure a POS type object or an actual station that has existed in space for a while?

I heard it was an indestructible LCO. A scenery object. That cannot be damaged in any way, except by GM action.

Such objects appear in missions and complexes all the time.
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Gaven Lok ri

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #61 on: 07 Nov 2013, 16:12 »

Tiberious;

My guess is that the IC news, being sourced from the Scope or from other Empire sources, wouldn't carry 'pirate' faction news in any meaningful way, excepting as it's from the perspective of the big four.

And agreed on the bloc thing. This event definitely has an ORDER v. CHAOS overtone. I'm not sure if anyone here has ever done tabletop wargames, but WH40K periodically does events in that vein-- where the xenophobic space catholics team up with the space elves against the natural and reasonable alliance of space robot skeletons, ZERRRG, and demons from another dimension.

I haven't played these games for an age, and the fluff-burning is still hilariously bad.

(honestly, I wish CCP would do more flavor news. Even if they don't have any in-game or plot effect, a couple random IG news items a week wouldn't take much time to produce, and would fill out the universe.)

Then make a new news source to act as an IC pirate call.  This is just frankly stupid.  As soon as I heard "Fight the forces of good" and did not hear WHO the pirates were, I washed my hands of this whole stupid event.

I wish they had just done that for the CONCORD call rather than having Amarr Empire actors giving us orders... then I could have skipped the whole nonsense.

I will be ignoring any future such general call events.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #62 on: 07 Nov 2013, 16:37 »

Well, that was a clusterfuck.
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Vic Van Meter

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #63 on: 07 Nov 2013, 16:40 »

So... does anyone have any idea WTF that whole thing was for?  Did CONCORD "accomplish" its goals?  Or did CCP just not think this through and the whole thing got called off?
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Kaldor Mintat

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #64 on: 07 Nov 2013, 16:46 »

So... does anyone have any idea WTF that whole thing was for?  Did CONCORD "accomplish" its goals?  Or did CCP just not think this through and the whole thing got called off?

Live server stress test.

Ok, kind of joking but would not surprise me the slightest.
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kalaratiri

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #65 on: 07 Nov 2013, 16:47 »

My current favorite theory is that this went exactly to plan.

Pirates were not interrupted, so ghost sites can be introduced (like they wouldn't have been. lol).
Capsuleers are now totally pissed with the uselessness of the Empires, a la the last trailer, setting the scene for Rubicon.
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Lunarisse Aspenstar

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #66 on: 07 Nov 2013, 17:04 »

I don't know but the announcement seemed awfully misleading as it suggested capsuleers were supposed to be the BACKUP to Concord and the Empire Navies.  So, where were they?

Glad I missed this one!
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Makoto Priano

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #67 on: 07 Nov 2013, 17:25 »

Alright.

Let's do this in AAR fashion. It's easy to pick up the terribad-CCP-hang-your-head-in-shame chant; let's get something actionable out of it. Esna's got a lot of it already. I'm just going to hit a few things as I think of them, and hopefully we can flesh it all out nicely.

In no particular order, the problems;

* Time dilation for the empire fleet;
* Nullsec chokepoints channeled empire fleet into null blocs' guns;
* Events all EU TZ during week;
* Short notice;
* Roleplay background weak.

Some of these have conflicting solutions. For instance, reinforcing a node can only do so much, especially when hundreds or thousands of players are moving; one solution would be to not do a news broadcast CTA which draws players like moths to the flame. This, however, runs the risk of events occurring for only the select few that have been made aware of it; this can lead to accusations of favoritism, wastes of resources, and so on. So-- I'm going to offer a few solutions per bullet point, and we can see which ones keep coming up.

* Time dilation for the empire fleet;
1) Smaller player counts. This can be done either by avoiding mass CTAs by alluding to events instead of posting mass invites, or by posting immediately before events instead of a day or more. An alternative example: "CONCORD announced that it will be requesting assistance for task forces venturing into unsecure space in the coming days and weeks. Pilots wishing to assist CONCORD are directed to monitor neocom channel 'XYZ blahdiblah' for the formation of task forces. Operational security requires that rally points, destinations, and times not be announced until immediately before an operation."
2) A jump bridge may have reduced travel-related tidi; instead of dozens of systems of travel, it would have been a single session change. I'm not sure if a bridge is a possibility, given game rules; it might be possible to bridge out, but not in, or it may simply not be possible to open a bridge at all.
2) Reinforcing nodes. Jita hosts impressive player counts, but most are docked up, and combat is fairly light, if constant. Odds are a reinforced node will help with time dilation, but the question is one of degrees, not absolutes. A thousand players shooting at each other will almost certainly hit 10% tidi.

* Nullsec chokepoints channeled empire fleet into null blocs' guns;
1) Destinations should not be broadcast before the event. If an opfor rally point is announced, it needs to be far enough away that the destination isn't clear; odds are the defenders/opfor will be closer, and so any time advantage will make the opfor gatecamp significantly more potent.
2) A jump bridge would move combat from the gates to a cyno; this would prevent an established camp with tacticals and anchored bubbles on gate. While it's still likely to be a slaughter with a nullsec alliance against a kitchen sink event fleet, it increases the ability of players to get through the blockade. Further, it cuts the time advantage of the defenders, time from destination announcement to arrival is cut to minutes from hours. Possible issue as before; can a jump bridge be opened in high security space? If not, an Empire titan in lowsec would be a MASSIVE bullseye. Frig. Can you imagine trying to explain that in prime fiction?
3) Alternatively, possibly using faction contacts to invite support from appropriate blocs would reduce the zerging of nullsec alliances? However, this runs smack into favoritism accusations again by multiple angles.

* Events all EU TZ during week;
Preamble: this is a known issue. At present, there isn't a reliable solution as event staff are bulked out by CCP volunteers, and CCP's event staff operates from Iceland. If additional event staff are hired at Atlanta, we may see more reliable non-EU TZ events.
1) Smaller events in US TZ may deal with US TZ being unable to attend any events; this reduces but doesn't eliminate the Iceland TZ issue, as while they'd still need event staff hours, CCP wouldn't be as reliant on volunteers to fill out bodies for large actor fleets.
2) ???

* Short notice;
Preamble: this runs into the issues above. Too much notice, and even if CCP tries to mitigate tidi and camping, the server will explode as players all plan to jam into a system at a given time.
Question: is there a solution that allows players to schedule time without killing CCP's hamsters?

* Roleplay background weak;
Preamble: I think we all agree this is a bit silly. "It's a big deal! Everyone wants players to join up! Join up, join up! Piwats, join those guys! Big deal time!"
1) Events need a longer lead-up, fluff-wise; this went from OH HAI NEWS to OH HAI EVENT in a single post and chronicle. Longer lead-time gives more opportunities for devious events that are more than shoot-actors-at-X-day-and-time, and for more player involvement in fluff. Further, it gives more time to explain strange alliances. Why would Sansha want to be there, for instance? Given the ideological differences between factions and how these are often posed as deep divisions, we may need to reestablish that, indeed, these factions often ally themselves out of necessity and convenience. Having Angel and Sansha interaction over Jove tech makes a lot of sense, if we remember to portray the Sansha as more than EVE Borg. (with all due respect to TS-F and Shaktipat; this is more an issue with common misconceptions of EVE lore, and CCP's sparing news updates reducing factions to simple stereotypes)
2) ?

So-- other problems? Solutions to existing problems? Madness and lunacy on my part?
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BloodBird

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #68 on: 07 Nov 2013, 17:37 »

I'm hoping to get some clarity into this mess, from the fallout ensuing in the following days. Because right now, anyone that said "null folks are going ot get force-fed loads of kills" were completely right on the money.

I'm more disgusted with null getting more shit they don't deserve handed to them, than CCP's fuck-ups. How many times is this going to happen before someone in CCP realizes that people that live in high-sec/low-sec are not free food for their beloved Empyrians out in null?
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Makoto Priano

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #69 on: 07 Nov 2013, 17:46 »

Back slowly away from the tinfoil.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I get the impression that this event was rushed, and the event staff haven't really been given rein to develop ideas or content as much as we'd like. The idea that marketing went, "Hey! Do this thing! Go, go!" sounds about right.
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Vic Van Meter

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #70 on: 07 Nov 2013, 17:51 »

In at least some particular order:

1:  You can get smaller groups by doing two things, either creating a random "room" you jump to via acceleration gate, and you make sure everyone is traveling with a tour guide, therefore it kind of becomes "instanced".  Or, you set up a hundred or so different targets, you make sure the Empire armies will "deal with the corps, you deal with the mission" and therefore the PVP people can fight the navies while the PVE people go and handle their business.  Either way, having everyone fly, as one, to the mission point screams "bad judgment".

2:  CCP can always say that this was just how it was supposed to turn out, but they might want to just admit that they didn't foresee nullsec blocs simply farming their fleet for ISK.  They definitely don't want to make that look intentional.  One way to do avoid this problem in future is to create a sort of instanced wormhole that you jump through with a fleet, or that CCP gives you an NPC Titan that "jumps" you to where you need to be.  That way, they keep their own PVP gankers from ruining their events.

3:  CCP is just shooting themselves in the foot.  I play WoW, and WoW neither needs that much extra help from Blizzard to run their events nor do they need to worry about timezones.  I still remember the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj, being there through that chaos, but increasing involvement means running a battle that might last for days.  They might just have to schedule people to regulate how many NPC pirates there are to provide a suitable challenge, but it's not like they shouldn't be able to just ship people into an area to fight a giant set of battles against a computer opponent.

Either way, they need to make the event last longer so that their whole player base can play.  Sometimes, that means CCP people might have to go to work early to monitor the server or stay up late.  I used to pull 60-72 hours to get our EMEA Starbucks projects done by deadline, so maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong angle?  They could just stagger their staff.  If you want to put on an event, it makes sense to have people around for the entire time.

4.  Short notice probably wasn't intentional.  This all smacks of horrible planning on CCP's part, which is why the theory Kalaratiri related doesn't make any sense (we aren't pissed at our empires or CONCORD, we're pissed at CCP).  If they wanted us to be pissed at the Empires or CONCORD, they should have gotten the capsuleers to the target efficiently, then betrayed them there.  All in all, it looks like CCP just thought they'd put this together for fun and ended up shooting themselves in the foot with bad planning and execution.

5.  Lore is probably related to the point above.  They obviously need to think of a way to work this into the lore and then never, ever do something this ill-thought again.  There are ways you do events, and not just RPers care about the story.  They could have built up a huge problem with the Serpentis and then CONCORD could have convinced the empires to send us all on a grand crusade against the pirates.  They didn't; hence why I think they didn't entirely think this through.
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Arista Shahni

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #71 on: 07 Nov 2013, 18:02 »

Meh, I'm not mad at them at all.  The server is just too large for live events to include everyone, but not including everyone is favoritism, wah wah, lemme hand out towelettes here.  So there likely will never be one that *isn't a clusterfuck*  *ever again*.

When the party gets too large, people make circles.  That's just the nature of people.

IC of course I would translate this into a reason to not trust CONCORD.

Because this:

Quote
Ren Karetta > I immediately regret my actions.

That's my Empire talking.. ;)
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Karmilla Strife

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #72 on: 07 Nov 2013, 18:18 »

While many of the flaws have been mentioned. I think this event does deserve some credit for trying to include the widest range of players possible. (meaning highsec, lowsec, and nullsec dwellers. Also it avoided a situation where the "wrong" militias would be excluded.)
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Makoto Priano

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #73 on: 07 Nov 2013, 18:27 »

Karmilla has a good point. CCP was aiming to be inclusive, which is laudable-- it was just poorly executed and on a short timescale.
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BloodBird

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: THE EMPIRES CALL FOR AID
« Reply #74 on: 07 Nov 2013, 18:34 »

Karmilla has a good point. CCP was aiming to be inclusive, which is laudable-- it was just poorly executed and on a short timescale.

True, but there-in lies the fuck-up. I'm hoping to see some damage control here and for this to be improved on in the future. The whole result of this utterly depress me and I wasn't even there. Though I'll admit some of that feeling stems form my views on the matter, regarding the results, but I'm sure I've made that clear by now.

Regardless, CCP need, desperately needs to up their game on this unless they want to drive participation for events way down into the ground. They have managed to rub thousands the wrong way on this, and those will likely not be happy to attend any further events. Course, null-entities would likely disagree and eagerly away the next event to come their way, but right now, their opinion on this would be of... lesser value.
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