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Maroon is the color of death for the Sani Sabik? (The Burning Life, p. 45)

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Author Topic: [Chronicle] Valklears  (Read 6343 times)

Silver Night

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[Chronicle] Valklears
« on: 23 May 2010, 13:10 »

Chronicle here: http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=17-05-10

I'm liking that they are having more 'infodump' style chrons. That stuff is what I find most useful, usually, as an RPer.

So, we have that some of the Republic's most elite soldiers are former violent, serious offenders.

From the way I read it, the existence of the program is not secret, but whether someone is a former member is?

Would people wonder about that new veteran transfer to their unit?

Also, It says that high ranking members of the Republic armed forces are former Valklears. That suggests that it is more than possible to advance to being an officer either before or after service with the unit?

Casiella

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #1 on: 23 May 2010, 13:27 »

This is largely an extension and re-publication of what we know about them from Theodicy, but without having to read, um, that particular author. >.>
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Ken

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #2 on: 23 May 2010, 15:24 »

So, we have that some of the Republic's most elite soldiers are former violent, serious offenders.

Any plans to add this info to the "Did you know..." ticker?
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Silver Night

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #3 on: 23 May 2010, 15:28 »

I'll submit it if I have a few minutes to comb through for an interesting factoid to lead into the link. You can submit it too, ya know.  :D

Seriphyn

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #4 on: 24 May 2010, 04:28 »

I like these infodumps...so far...the badass/shady/unscrupulous/amoral units for each of the factions are...

Gallente - Black Eagles
Minmatar - Valklears
Amarr - Kameiras
Caldari - ???

Cool to see. With this kinda info, there's no longer any need to assume factional, non-pirate RPers are the naive ones who aren't capable of being big hardass Guristas or Angels  ;)
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Hamish Grayson

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #5 on: 24 May 2010, 10:01 »

I like these infodumps...so far...the badass/shady/unscrupulous/amoral units for each of the factions are...

Gallente - Black Eagles
Minmatar - Valklears
Amarr - Kameiras
Caldari - Civire

There you go.
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Silver Night

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #6 on: 24 May 2010, 10:57 »

I like these infodumps...so far...the badass/shady/unscrupulous/amoral units for each of the factions are...

Gallente - Black Eagles
Minmatar - Valklears
Amarr - Kameiras
Caldari - Civire

There you go.

:lol:

Also, Caldari have a bunch of them, cause they have a corporate security force for each megacorp.

Mathra Hiede

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #7 on: 25 May 2010, 22:36 »

I like these infodumps...so far...the badass/shady/unscrupulous/amoral units for each of the factions are...

Gallente - Black Eagles
Minmatar - Valklears
Amarr - Kameiras
Caldari - ???

Cool to see. With this kinda info, there's no longer any need to assume factional, non-pirate RPers are the naive ones who aren't capable of being big hardass Guristas or Angels  ;)

Forget Caldari.

Khanid - Mashtori?
Ammatar - ?
Mordus - ?
etc etc.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #8 on: 26 May 2010, 00:12 »

What struck me when reading this chronicle is how close to slavery the Valklear program is. While I'm by no means saying the Amarr Empire's mass-slavery policy involving billions, possibly trillions of people is the same as a single military unit, the underlieing concept - "Do something for us, something dirty, dangerous, and probably dealdy, or we'll leave you to some much, much worse fate" - is at best a very gray method and at worst downright coercive.

To me, stuff like this really fleshes out the various nations and give us a good feel for them - not just that it shows that everyone is gray rather than black vs white, but that which shows us how some of the perhaps lesser known or even secret bits of the nations work.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Silver Night

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #9 on: 26 May 2010, 13:00 »

I think a comparison to slavery is shaky - at least beyond the level where incarceration in general might be compared to slavery.

Work programs aren't uncommon in prisons, even IRL in the modern US. Historically, military service as an option for convicts isn't that uncommon either.

I think as a method of rehabilitation it might be a little questionable - Take serial killers and rapists and train them to be superlative troops, then if they survive set them loose and keep it secret?

It is possible that the ones that are likely to be a problem after release simply don't survive, of course.

On the other hand, on a 'larger picture' sort of basis, I can see where having an extremely disposable (without repercussions from the public/soldier's clans/etc) elite military unit might be useful or even vital for a nation in the Republic's position.

Myyona

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #10 on: 31 May 2010, 07:25 »

I like these infodumps...so far...the badass/shady/unscrupulous/amoral units for each of the factions are...

Gallente - Black Eagles
Minmatar - Valklears
Amarr - Kameiras
Caldari - ???

Cool to see. With this kinda info, there's no longer any need to assume factional, non-pirate RPers are the naive ones who aren't capable of being big hardass Guristas or Angels  ;)

The Guristas got the Dread Guristas strike forces. Here is the in game description:
Quote
A troupe of trained specialists, skilled at overtaking stations for the Guristas. This team, calling themselves the “Dread Naughts,” are a rough bunch, hellfires in the restrictive confines of your cargohold, hardly a disciplined lot during downtime. However, once they are in action, they have the precision to match any elite Empire task force.
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Silver Night

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #11 on: 31 May 2010, 11:32 »

Sounds very in line with the impression that I, and I think many others, have of the Guristas.

Mordu's I think might qualify as an elite military unit overall, though there might be some internal elite unit too, given the sub-faction's apparent size, these days?

Where were the Mashtori, for the Khanid, mentioned?

The thing with the Caldari - I think I will start a new thread for, actually.

Gottii

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #12 on: 01 Jun 2010, 15:55 »

Well, this chronicle was near and dear to my heart, since I had written into Gottii's background for about a year now that he was an ex-Valklear.

Obviously it changed some things for my characters background and the conceptualization I had of him.  I was at first disappointed in myself for completely missing Theodicy and its information on Valklear.  However, my "how did I not read this??" changed to "oh, thats why" when, on the first page, I saw the author. 

Basically, one of the things it changed for me was the very concept of what a Valklear was.  I kinda saw them as extremely tough, yes, but namely because they would be thrown into whatever battle was expected to inflict heavy losses, human-wave style.  Like Silver said, having a unit filled with soldiers who no one would really mind if they died is one of, if not the, main reason to have a penal unit in the first place, at least historically.   

So finding out they were some kind of commando super-soldier was a surprise to me, and kinda gave Gottii a Mary-sueish background I was hoping to avoid.  But, whatever, you roll with CCP's punches I guess.

What I liked the most about the chronicle was the recruitment aspect of it, and the recruiters would be the only reason a unit like this could work.  They would have to be very very selective who they went after.  Criminals, as a whole, generally make poor quality soldiers.  Criminality is generally rooted in some kind of dysfunction, whether from an extremely disadvantaged and/or abusive background, underlying mental health reasons, drug addiction or all of the above. 

In real life, very, very rarely does a strong, capable, intelligent and ruthless person decide one day "yanno, im going to go knock over that 7-11" or even "yanno, Im going to go rob that bank and make millions".  The truly capable ruthless people out there go and work on Wall Street, end up owning the Bank itself, and makes billions quasi-legally and avoids the hassel of law enforcement and the pressures of being a criminal. 

So thats one reason I love the recruiting aspect of it.  I loved how they brought criminals of all types into the fold, went outside of the norm when looking for those who would succeed.  I wrote Gottii in as a drug addict and a murderer, but I really got a kick out of a ruthless lawyer and embezzeler being picked out to be a Valklear.  Because that lawyer and embezzeler is probably more likely to succeed at the training, and be able to show initative, self-motivation and discipline, and independent thinking on a covert mission, than your typical street thug. 

So I think the recruiters would have to look for a combination of smarts, aggression, social skills (to work as a unit, a unit of loners goes no-where), with just the right mixture of pathological personalities while avoiding outright, full-blown sociopaths (who arent going to stay and fight for their buddies or anyone else for that matter).  I would imagine the training is heavy on unit-forming and team building, even more so than standard military infantry training, since you need to weed out the people so anti-social they simply cant work with others even when their lives depend on it.   

The whole "your history is erased, and your name is changed" thing kinda threw me for a ret-conning loop, but at least it makes for a better reason why Gottii was allowed into capsuleer training in the first place.  If they make these murders and thieves generals, why not a pod pilot?

At any rate, if anyone is interested, my blog already has a couple stories about some of Gottii's experiences in the Valklear, told from a first person perspective.  Im actually really pleased with the recruiting story, since it jives a lot with the chronicle itself, and was written and posted a couple days before the chronicle was published.  And I was even able to find a place for the "Im not here to train you. Im here to kill you" quote, and not come off too terribly cheesy (I hope). 
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Silver Night

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #13 on: 02 Jun 2010, 17:46 »

I wonder - and this is slightly tangential - how the Republic views different sorts of financial crimes.

I mean, here in the US, someone who embezzles a few million dollars - even from say a charity - is probably going to a minimum security prison. It isn't considered the same as a murder, say. Contrast this with China where people who seriously fuck up in their capacity as a corporate executive get executed with some regularity (though the ones I recall mostly had to do with negligently poisoning people with industrial waste etc., rather than strictly 'white collar' crime).

That isn't really constant, though, across societies, I think. In the Republic, where a lot of people struggle, and the money that is stolen might well have gone to Vitoxin treatment, or feeding refugees (depending on where it was stolen from) it might potentially rate up there with murder. 

Casiella

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Re: [Chronicle] Valklears
« Reply #14 on: 02 Jun 2010, 18:16 »

In the Burning Life novel, what SN references does get some discussion.

[spoiler]
A Minmatar war criminal does not get tried but rather sent off to the Big Sekrit Elder Project (in Great Wildlands), partly because they don't want the bad publicity and partly because his high-up supporters agreed with what he did. But, as one of the characters states, "You've got to be pretty damn nasty for the Republic to reject your efforts in the struggle for freedom." Later, another one says, "They celebrate their own people, even those who've done terrible things."
[/spoiler]

Not sure if I needed those tags, but better safe than sorry I suppose.
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