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That the higher levels of space stations are restricted to the elite, with capsuleers occupying the very top decks? (The Burning life p. 73)

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Author Topic: EVE Rubicon  (Read 21293 times)

Lyn Farel

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #60 on: 10 Oct 2013, 09:05 »

PI custom offices models ingame use spaceships (dropships?).

Space elevators are mentionned in PF here and there too.
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Alain Colcer

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #61 on: 10 Oct 2013, 10:17 »

I've been trying to find the source but i distinctively rememeber reading about the new custom offices and the technology being used.....and it was a gravity assisted propulsion (tractor beam tech related).
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #62 on: 10 Oct 2013, 10:39 »

Almost certainly for any reasonably developed planet, if only for the very simple reason that a single office couldn't be easily reachable from more than 50% of a planet's surface at any given time. Descending to the far side would be easier, but for ascension you'd either spend a lot of time waiting on proper launch windows or consume a ton of fuel doing launches outside of the opportune windows. So, as said, if the planet is reasonably developed, you're probably going to get at least 2-3 offices up soon enough... and the most undeveloped empire planets are probably in lowsec anyhow, where we've had the run of our own offices for ages.

This assumes that a reasonably developed planet relies on chemical rockets to put stuff into orbit.

I think DUST throws that concept out the window considering the existence of War Barges.

If it wasn't already questionable considering FTL drives and the amount of energy involved in accelerating even the simple frigate to  non-MWD speeds.

Someone might have the right reference, but I thought the more... fancy planet-to-space transport methods were reserved for those who could afford it?  I thought the majority of planetside transfers were through things like space elevators and the like? especially for cargo?

This is an area of eve PF I'm pretty weak on.  It looks like we have artificial gravity on spaceships, warp drive, hovercars, floating Amarr chairs, but also plenty of things to reference a lack of anti-gravity sorts of equipment in other areas?

I am r confused.

Note that 'waiting for launch windows' and 'using lots of fuel otherwise' doesn't necessarily indicate chemical rockets. Virtually any fixed installation - chemical rocket launchpad, electromagnetic accelerator sled, gravitic-catapult thingamajiggies, etc - would have to either wait for an opportune alignment of a single orbiting facility to minimize energy use, or put a lot of excess energy (and fuel of whatever variety to generate it) into their 'throw' to reach that facility in a reasonable period of time.

Anyhow, some PF notes:
- The chronicle Stairway to Heaven is basically about this question, and it states that while a variety of methods are used for niche purposes on various worlds with unusual atmospheric conditions, the "high-orbit shuttle deployment, where an airborne vehicle gradually clears the atmosphere at low angles, remains the most popular method of both passenger transportation and freight."

- PI launchpads describe the use of electromagnetic accelerators (1), solid-fuel rockets (1), rockets of unclear type (4), and no clarification at all (2).
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Elmund Egivand

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #63 on: 10 Oct 2013, 20:35 »

Almost certainly for any reasonably developed planet, if only for the very simple reason that a single office couldn't be easily reachable from more than 50% of a planet's surface at any given time. Descending to the far side would be easier, but for ascension you'd either spend a lot of time waiting on proper launch windows or consume a ton of fuel doing launches outside of the opportune windows. So, as said, if the planet is reasonably developed, you're probably going to get at least 2-3 offices up soon enough... and the most undeveloped empire planets are probably in lowsec anyhow, where we've had the run of our own offices for ages.

This assumes that a reasonably developed planet relies on chemical rockets to put stuff into orbit.

I think DUST throws that concept out the window considering the existence of War Barges.

If it wasn't already questionable considering FTL drives and the amount of energy involved in accelerating even the simple frigate to  non-MWD speeds.

Someone might have the right reference, but I thought the more... fancy planet-to-space transport methods were reserved for those who could afford it?  I thought the majority of planetside transfers were through things like space elevators and the like? especially for cargo?

This is an area of eve PF I'm pretty weak on.  It looks like we have artificial gravity on spaceships, warp drive, hovercars, floating Amarr chairs, but also plenty of things to reference a lack of anti-gravity sorts of equipment in other areas?

I am r confused.

Note that 'waiting for launch windows' and 'using lots of fuel otherwise' doesn't necessarily indicate chemical rockets. Virtually any fixed installation - chemical rocket launchpad, electromagnetic accelerator sled, gravitic-catapult thingamajiggies, etc - would have to either wait for an opportune alignment of a single orbiting facility to minimize energy use, or put a lot of excess energy (and fuel of whatever variety to generate it) into their 'throw' to reach that facility in a reasonable period of time.

Anyhow, some PF notes:
- The chronicle Stairway to Heaven is basically about this question, and it states that while a variety of methods are used for niche purposes on various worlds with unusual atmospheric conditions, the "high-orbit shuttle deployment, where an airborne vehicle gradually clears the atmosphere at low angles, remains the most popular method of both passenger transportation and freight."

- PI launchpads describe the use of electromagnetic accelerators (1), solid-fuel rockets (1), rockets of unclear type (4), and no clarification at all (2).

So, PI launchpads are rocket-assisted railguns. Suddenly PI sounds more awesome.
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #64 on: 10 Oct 2013, 21:32 »

- PI launchpads describe the use of electromagnetic accelerators (1), solid-fuel rockets (1), rockets of unclear type (4), and no clarification at all (2).

So, PI launchpads are rocket-assisted railguns. Suddenly PI sounds more awesome.

Only Gas Planet Launchpads are giant railguns. That's what the (1) means. Only one case mentions a railgun.

Quote from: Show Info:  Gas Launchpad
In order to transport produced commodities from the lower orbit position of the node structure to the higher orbit of spaceports and trade hubs above gas giant planets, an old but reliable technology was revisited. The lack of a solid surface requires a very low recoil launch system, a situation that prohibits the use of solid fuel rockets, but the Hohmann Mass Driver uses a series of triggered electromagnets instead, producing minimal waste force. Essentially an enormous cargo railgun, the device propels a ferrous canister to a waiting deceleration receptacle aboard a high-orbit facility.

orange

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #65 on: 10 Oct 2013, 21:35 »



This doesn't seem to make any sense to me... capsuleers are clones in pod goo!  If you lost your arm in some horrible accident, you get a new one next time you get podded!

I understood the utility of optical implants, there is clear utility when you are out of pod.  What exactly does the capsuleer plan to do with a cybernetic arm?  Tag along with special ops troops?  Oh wait, those guys now have clone bodies too.
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Elmund Egivand

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #66 on: 10 Oct 2013, 21:43 »

- PI launchpads describe the use of electromagnetic accelerators (1), solid-fuel rockets (1), rockets of unclear type (4), and no clarification at all (2).

So, PI launchpads are rocket-assisted railguns. Suddenly PI sounds more awesome.

Only Gas Planet Launchpads are giant railguns. That's what the (1) means. Only one case mentions a railgun.

Quote from: Show Info:  Gas Launchpad
In order to transport produced commodities from the lower orbit position of the node structure to the higher orbit of spaceports and trade hubs above gas giant planets, an old but reliable technology was revisited. The lack of a solid surface requires a very low recoil launch system, a situation that prohibits the use of solid fuel rockets, but the Hohmann Mass Driver uses a series of triggered electromagnets instead, producing minimal waste force. Essentially an enormous cargo railgun, the device propels a ferrous canister to a waiting deceleration receptacle aboard a high-orbit facility.

But I P.I. Gas Giants, therefore my colonists are wielding gigantic railguns.



This doesn't seem to make any sense to me... capsuleers are clones in pod goo!  If you lost your arm in some horrible accident, you get a new one next time you get podded!

I understood the utility of optical implants, there is clear utility when you are out of pod.  What exactly does the capsuleer plan to do with a cybernetic arm?  Tag along with special ops troops?  Oh wait, those guys now have clone bodies too.

Arm-wrestling and bitch-slapping clone soldiers. It's the only way a capsuleer can manage.
« Last Edit: 10 Oct 2013, 21:45 by Elmund Egivand »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #67 on: 10 Oct 2013, 22:04 »

motherfucking monocle-arm-gate part duex

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Iwan Terpalen

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #68 on: 11 Oct 2013, 03:42 »

Quote from: Show Info:  Gas Launchpad
The lack of a solid surface requires a very low recoil launch system, a situation that prohibits the use of solid fuel rockets, but the Hohmann Mass Driver-
NngnnghnnnnhaâââÂÂÂÂââaah. :psyccp:
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Ollie

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #69 on: 11 Oct 2013, 06:31 »

Note: Snipped the cyberarm pic on account of space saving.

This doesn't seem to make any sense to me... capsuleers are clones in pod goo!  If you lost your arm in some horrible accident, you get a new one next time you get podded!

I understood the utility of optical implants, there is clear utility when you are out of pod.  What exactly does the capsuleer plan to do with a cybernetic arm?  Tag along with special ops troops?  Oh wait, those guys now have clone bodies too.

So this is interesting to me, although probably not interesting enough to make me actually go out and spend isk or aur or whatever they're charging for it without a real WiS environment.

The reason is that Ollie has one of these things. I don't RP it often because it's not particularly obvious.

The background is pretty simple (maybe even simplistic) and I figure because I don't use it much in RP and it has no real in-game effects anyway, I've got some latitude with anything I haven't correctly interpreted from PF.

[spoiler]
Ollie was born on an asteroid mining colony somewhere in the ass end of Gallente space. The environment toxins he was exposed to in utero (potentially in common with other genetic anomalies) left him with a dysmelic congenital abnormality, expressing itself as absence of right upper limb. That's how he was for the first 6-7 years of his life.

Stuff happened™ and then his parents aren't around anymore, so he and his sister get shipped into the dubious shelter of the Federal foster care system. They fit him out with the most cost effective and basic of artificial limbs, because high-tech stuff like gene manipulation is expensive and it's not going to work for some snivelling puke of a kid at this stage anyway. Something that'll let him do manual labour or whatever is enough.

Stuff happens™ again and he becomes a capsuleer, decades later now. No limb and cheap-but-functional artificial limbs are all he's known for the first three decades of his life - that's his normal - and they offer him added abilities, now that he's got the promise of isk coming in. Network interfacing (think of the scene in Ghost in the Shell where the guy's cybernetic hand disassembles into 'plugs' that connect with the various interfaces around him), smart-tech options (smart-gun targetting +/- links with optical implants, reflex upgrades, chemical analysis, mimicry of stored fingerprint patterns, etc), storage (weapons, toxins, data slices) and increased resilience in hostile environmental conditions (no more gloves to manipulate eyes in ultra-low temp containers a la Blade Runner) are a few of the applications that potentially come to mind.

Mostly it's about what he knows though and what he's comfortable with - what is it to not have a natural limb if it's all you've ever known and there are similar if not better replacement options out there? And what's natural about a capsuleer anyway?

So he tells the clone-techs not to worry about the gene manipulation for that 'disability' and he plugs a new SOTA arm into every new clone he cultures from his original DNA.
[/spoiler]

There's a few things it adds to my RP, but it'd be pretty easy to abuse. So it comes down to the player as always I guess.

And like I said, until they get WiS operational in any context other than walking around solo in a CQ that burns my GPU into the table under my computer, I'm unlikely to pay dollars, ISK or AUR for it (presuming that's the cost it comes at).
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Victoria Stecker

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #70 on: 11 Oct 2013, 09:53 »

Quote from: Show Info:  Gas Launchpad
The lack of a solid surface requires a very low recoil launch system, a situation that prohibits the use of solid fuel rockets, but the Hohmann Mass Driver-
NngnnghnnnnhaâââÂÂÂÂââaah. :psyccp:

Hahahahaaaaaa. That's awesome.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #71 on: 11 Oct 2013, 11:09 »

Regarding the cyberarms, Dex... one word.

One word.

Repeat it with me: VANITY.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

orange

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #72 on: 11 Oct 2013, 11:39 »

Regarding the cyberarms, Dex... one word.

One word.

Repeat it with me: VANITY.

Is FuckEA a word?
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #73 on: 11 Oct 2013, 11:48 »

Why is everyone getting so up in arms (lol, pun) about what is obviously a tattoo?

Look at the shape, people. It's not a real cyber arm. It's fake. I could get that in real life tomorrow if I wanted. CCP already has the full capability to make an actual cybernetic arm model and use it on our characters. They have the alpha-layer capability ALREADY, and have used it on other garments and accessories.  This is NOT a real cyber arm. It's a freaking paint job.

We've had cyber eyes, and roleplayers with cigarette lighter fingers, and muscle augments, and robocop guns in our thighs for years now. Hell, Makkal Hanaya uses cyber arms that would fit well in Deus Ex, but I don't see anybody deriding her and bashing her character for having them. You have the Ardishapur cyber hand, but nobody says anything about that. You all are getting upset because CCP made a tattoo that looks like a poor representation of a cybernetic arm? Seriously? I think you're all being remarkably silly, and that's a nice way of putting it.

Chill out.

Esna Pitoojee

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Re: EVE Rubicon
« Reply #74 on: 11 Oct 2013, 13:07 »

The differences between this and monoclegate are:

- In monoclegate, the single item cost $80, with other items costing around $35 or so IIRC. While the price may not be terribly low for each item in the Second Decade pack, you're still getting around 18 items (counting individual DUST and EVE equipment) for $150 - so, nothing is really costing you more than $10 each.
- In monoclegate, the Noble Exchange items were meant to be the first wave of things we were expected to mass-buy. Dressing up your spaceshipperson was supposed to be a major feature of Incarna. Thus, the high prices were an issue because they clearly didn't jive with the idea that these were going to be bought by lots of people. The Second Decade pack, by contrast, is a limited edition collector's item. It is very clearly not expected to be something everyone will purchase. Thus, high price is to be expected.
- Frankly, the fact that it comes with physical items is a big push in its favor. I'd suspect that Rifter USB hub accounts for at least a quarter of the cost, not to mention what finding someone to make addition copies of the Danger Game must have cost.

So, yeah. It's a pricey collector's item. Just like the $200 models were. For all the derps CCP has done lately, I don't think this is one of them.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.
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