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[Techie Kanenald]

So, I just got an idea for a fiction, however....it deals with suicide.

Knowing this is a hot button, I was wondering on what thoughts people had on fiction containing hot buttons.

I will say, having been suicidal in the past, I would give it the respect it deserves...I understand that can be a big thing, treating a topic with respect.

Anyway, thoughts?

[Silas Vitalia]

Suicide is always a great topic when dealing with Immortals.

Plenty of good fiction dealing with these issues, be it with centuries old vampires or trans-humanists just.... tired of it all.

Go for it

[Lyn Farel]

Go for it, I don't mind either people not caring, or caring.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Try to avoid using suicide as a solution for depression. Instead, angle the roleplay to present it as a solution for immortality.

Also, suicide roleplay should only be played with the proper gravitas and careful respect it demands in reality. Suicide is NOT A JOKE. It's not an artform. It's not a dramatic story. It's an extremely painful and tragic loss that is experienced by everybody who knew the victim, with lasting consequences. That means it must be a very very difficult choice for you and your character.

That means you need to use the biomass option if your character decides to go through with it.

If you don't, keep in mind that repeated failed suicide attempts can cheapen the 'cry for help' and weight of your RP. People may begin to roll their eyes (either IC or OOC) and no longer take notice. At worst, your RP may not be taken seriously and your character's reputation IC along with your own can suffer severely for it. At absolute worst, it can offend those who have lost a loved one to suicide in reality, as they may see you trivializing an extremely painful event for them.

[Lyn Farel]

Try to avoid using suicide as a solution for depression.

Why not? That's usually the logical consequence for depression... Though ofc not saying that it HAS to happen.

[Techie Kanenald]

It's actually not for a roleplay character, but for a piece of fiction.  And yes, it will touch on the capsuleer's problem of immortality.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Try to avoid using suicide as a solution for depression.

Why not? That's usually the logical consequence for depression... Though ofc not saying that it HAS to happen.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I mean that he should endeavor to put the emphasis of the roleplay on the unique aspect of how suicide would fit into the context of unwanted immortality, rather than the fairly cliche concept of "im sad and want to kill myself". The former presents a story that calls up many existential and metaphysical questions. The latter merely presents another possibly tasteless and trivialized representation of suicidal habits due to depression.

I'm not accusing Techie of being prone to or intending to present such a bad roleplay, but I am saying that it's been done offensively enough times by others before him that I make a point of trying to steer people away from the depression-suicide trope altogether.

I think there is much greater literary value in exploring the sorts of unique struggles an effectively immortal person would struggle with. If we were immortal, would we really enjoy it or want it?  Would we have deep theological struggles that would pressure us to give up the perceived sin of immortality? Perhaps a moral struggle? Or perhaps it's a personal fear... would we in abject terror of the endlessness of eternity decide the comforting finality of death better suits us?

If you want to include suicide or threat of suicide in your roleplay, don't focus on the common trope of depressive suicide. There is so much more that could be explored and told in your story.

[Arista Shahni]

As a subtle point - in the "psychology of informorphs", one could say that even something as simple as cancelling their medical clones is, in a sense, a form of 'passive suicide' (may not be the actual term for it), but in the sense of "throwing onself in front of the cops to let them do the killing", but even if the informorph does this and then retires planetside, they are throwing themselves in front of time and eventuality of biomass/a mortal body.  "I don't want to be immortal anymore" pretty much equates to "I want to die".  An informorph ending their own life and waking in a vat happens every day they undock planning pew and not being on the winning side, bait pilots, null pilots taking the pod express, etc...

It's no more difficult for an infomorph to commit suicide than anyone else, but something I personaly tak einto considertion (I don't know if anyone else does) is the requirements for capsuleer compatability.  I'm not sure if they're ever even vaugely drawn out in PF anywhere, but personally assumed that it was not only some "magic gene" or ability to accomodate physical stressors, but also test for psychological stressors as well.  Any capsuleer who is trying to gank themselves due to those reasons has undergone a stressor above and beyond anything a baseliner would experience in the fight - flight - exhaustion chain of events that leads to this sort of behavior. 

So along those lines, your average "teen angst on a fragile psyche" at least in my opinion wouldn't apply to someone who can kill a thousand spaceship crew before breakfast.  It would have to be something .. big. 

Then, of course, you can play into the racial / factional behaviors of the specific character.  An Amarrian might end their ownlife for a completely different reason than a Caldari, for example.

[Lyn Farel]

Try to avoid using suicide as a solution for depression.

Why not? That's usually the logical consequence for depression... Though ofc not saying that it HAS to happen.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I mean that he should endeavor to put the emphasis of the roleplay on the unique aspect of how suicide would fit into the context of unwanted immortality, rather than the fairly cliche concept of "im sad and want to kill myself". The former presents a story that calls up many existential and metaphysical questions. The latter merely presents another possibly tasteless and trivialized representation of suicidal habits due to depression.

I'm not accusing Techie of being prone to or intending to present such a bad roleplay, but I am saying that it's been done offensively enough times by others before him that I make a point of trying to steer people away from the depression-suicide trope altogether.

I think there is much greater literary value in exploring the sorts of unique struggles an effectively immortal person would struggle with. If we were immortal, would we really enjoy it or want it?  Would we have deep theological struggles that would pressure us to give up the perceived sin of immortality? Perhaps a moral struggle? Or perhaps it's a personal fear... would we in abject terror of the endlessness of eternity decide the comforting finality of death better suits us?

If you want to include suicide or threat of suicide in your roleplay, don't focus on the common trope of depressive suicide. There is so much more that could be explored and told in your story.

Sure thing. That's the kind of stuff I like to develop at times with my character and her relation to death. She will never really mind killing herself, but ending all her clones and pulling the trigger would scare the shit out of her. She would probably be ten times more coward than mortals on that specific point.

I tend to think that immortals tend to actually be the most afraid of mortality.

[Techie Kanenald]

Thank you Kat, you just gave me a better idea.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Try to avoid using suicide as a solution for depression.

Why not? That's usually the logical consequence for depression... Though ofc not saying that it HAS to happen.

Actually, it's not. And certainly not a logical consequence of depression.

[Techie Kanenald]

I'll agree with Nico here.  If it was the logical, inevitable, or any sort of conclusion to depression, than 1 in 10 American adults would already be dead by now, including myself who would have died long before I even knew about EvE.

We fight the good fight to stay alive.

[Lyn Farel]

Sorry, that's not what I meant... I used the wrong wording. I meant it's one of the possibilities.

[Iwan Terpalen]

It's not a taboo topic, and even using common or cliche'd tropes don't automatically damn a piece, in my opinion -- it's all in the execution.

I think it would be polite to slap a trigger or subject matter warning on your stuff if it deals with sensitive topics, though.

[Reyd Karris]

I think it would be polite to slap a trigger or subject matter warning on your stuff if it deals with sensitive topics, though.

This. It's also a good idea to run it by someone who's opinion you trust to read it first, and get some feedback.