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[Katrina Oniseki]

Interesting stuff. Lackluster in some areas, exciting in others. All around a confusing change that I'm not sure what to make of. Certainly very specialized, with CCP's new T2 balancing philosophy.

As we have hinted several times before, Marauders are next on the Tech2 to-do list. And guess what? It's feedback time!

Marauders were initially released during the Trinity expansion in 2007 and were aimed for PvE activities. However, as time passed and we rebalanced other classes, especially the Pirate Battleships, they lost appeal as a whole.

We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE, and as such we wish to expand their use to PvP as well. Of course, their high price, low mobility will always ensure their role remains a niche one, but we at least can make that purpose more appealing than a simple "jam me now and forever" target dummy.


As such, after much internal and CSM discussion, we have designed Marauders with two modes of operation, specialized in harassing tactics.


In regular mode, they work approximately on the same fashion as on TQ, but are capable of using Micro Jump Drive at a faster rate than usual to quickly relocate on the battlefield.

In deployed mode (we call it bastion), their hulls transform (they will have fancy visible animations like the Rorqual does when deploying) and they become fixed weapon placement with a bonus to resistances, tanking, damage projection and receiving EW immunity. However, like Dreadnoughts, they cannot be remote assisted or even move when that happens. They also cannot use Micro Jump Drives in that mode.


The combination of both results in a ship that can jump 100km away to quickly react to a shifting environment, then go into bastion mode and use its increased damage application to deal with opposition while absorbing damage. However, due to the lack of remote assistance in that mode and isolating nature of Micro Jump Drives, they will still die easily in larger fights where DPS is concentrated. Remember that the spool up nature of the Micro Jump Drives plus the time needed to align will give opponents a window of opportunity to tackle them before they can jump again.

This also provides a stepping stone between sub-capitals / capital and their various siege / triage operation. It is noteworthy to remember we don't necessarily want them to out-damage or go faster than Pirate Battleships - instead, they tank and project damage better.


=================================================================================================

Before we look at the hulls, here are the details about the Bastion module itself:

BASTION MODULE

Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)
Increases shield and armor repair amount by 100%
Extends all large turret falloff and optimal by 25%
Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%
Has a cycle time of 80 seconds. Cycle is reduced by 5% for each level of Bastion module skill to a minimum of 60 seconds.
When in bastion mode, Marauder is immune to EW but cannot be remote assisted in any way
When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping
Only one may be fitted per Marauder, cannot be deactivated before cycle ends
Uses 10 CPU and 100 powergrid to fit
Uses no specific fuel or capacitor - we were discussing the use of Heavy Water as fuel. However, it doesn't really provide any gameplay (as CCP Rise mentioned, capacitor is the main limiting factor in combat with those ships). Plus it adds more consumables to a class that already commonly uses charges for weapons, cap boosters and need to keep cargo for possible salvaging.


BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIE™ SKILL(name not final)
Rank 8
Perception, Willpower as Primary / Secondary
Requires Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5 (that's needed to fly a Marauder anyway)


=================================================================================================

Giving a new deployed mode is not enough however, as some modifications need to be made on the hulls themselves. First, we wanted to encourage Marauders to use Micro Jump Drives to move around, and as such have reduced mobility next to their Tech1 counterparts (bit higher mass and lower max velocity). We are also reducing their drone bays as they are primarily meant to deliver damage through their main weapon system. They also keep the resistances they have right now instead of gaining full Tech2 resists, otherwise the combination with the bastion module would be quite over the top.

However, we realize Marauder hulls have a certain number of issues; as such we are significantly increasing their fittings so that they can fit Large Micro Jump Drives plus Heavy Capacitor Boosters with more ease (the Vargur especially needed more fitting options). We also are increasing their high slots to 8 to compensate for the slot allocation of the bastion mode. We also are increasing their maximum targeting range and scan resolution a bit to make use of the increased damage projection, while decreasing their signature radius.

As a final combo bonus, we also are changing Target Painter cycle time from 10 to 5 seconds, and reducing their cap usage to compensate - waiting for the Target Painter cycle to finish before swapping targets is quite annoying on the Golem.

Detailed changes below.


PALADIN

Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to capacitor capacity
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)

Marauder Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems
5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level


Slot layout: 8H(+1), 4M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 16500 PWG (+3000), 530 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6300(-500) / 8000(-200) / 7700(+400)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 8000(+2375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 8 cap/s (+2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s(-20) / .119(-0.009) / 111665000(+6465000) / 18.42s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(-50) / 50(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 91km(+10km) / 120(+39) / 10
Sensor strength: 12 Radar
Signature radius: 420(-80)



GOLEM

Role Bonus: 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity
5% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per level

Marauders Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to shield boost amount
10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level


Slot layout: 8H(+1), 7M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 8500 PWG (+2000), 715 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000(-200) / 6100(-1200) / 7000(+300)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6325(+700) / 1150s (+226.1s) / 5.5 cap/s (-0.5)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s(-20) / .12 / 114195000(+8995000) / 19s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(-50) / 50(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 95km(+5km) / 105(+32) / 10
Sensor strength: 14 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 450(-125)



KRONOS

Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage
10% bonus to large Hybrid Turret Falloff per level (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)

Marauder Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems
7.5% bonus to large hybrid weapon tracking per level


Slot layout: 8H(+1), 4M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 14000 PWG (+2000), 580 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6600(-200) / 7200(-100) / 8600(+400)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6900(+1275) / 1150s (+226.1s) / 6 cap/s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 m/s(-28) / .114(-0.0038) / 113160000(+11360000) / 17.8s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 50(-75)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km(+3km) / 120(+39) / 10
Sensor strength: 13 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 420(-80)



VARGUR

Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large projectile weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to large projectile turret rate of fire
10% bonus to large projectile turret falloff per level

Marauder Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to shield boost amount
7.5% bonus to large projectile turret tracking per level


Slot layout: 8H(+1), 6M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 12900 PWG(+5000), 625 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7500(-100) / 6600(-200) / 6300 (-1000)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200(+575) / 1100s(+176.1s) / 5.6 cap/s (-0.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 100 m/s(-30) / .112(-0.004) / 116840000(+10740000) / 18.1s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 50(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 81km(+6km) / 145(+60) / 10
Sensor strength: 11 Ladar
Signature radius: 360(-65)

[Katrina Oniseki]

[delete please]

[Esna Pitoojee]

First, you appear to have double-posted the general change info in your quote.

Second, dat Marsiege module. 0_0

I still don't see these being a tremendous use in PvP, though. Price tag is far to high, alpha is still to much in fashion. You might see a handful of "elitePvP" groups deploying these for small skirmish, but they lack one critical trait dreadnoughts have: The ability to easily and safely extract via cyno if things go tits-up.

[Saede Riordan]

I dunno Esna, just looking at the implications of the Bastion module, this could be a complete game changer in Wormhole space, and could possibly become the ship of the line of choice for rich nullblobs.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I admit I didn't consider W-space much, as tactics there tend to be noticeably different than normal PvP, employing a lot of 'niche' hulls.

The problem with 0.0 blob warfare is the alpha/burst-DPS issue. A lot of the current doctrines - rail rokhs, rail megas, HM caracals, most tier 3 doctrines, any sentry doctrine - are more or less about successfully focusing a lot of firepower onto a single target within a very brief period of time. With a cycle time of 60 seconds, an FC could order his fleet to lock up a target (~10 secs), start "pinging" them with EW mods (~5 secs at most), call a primary for lock (another 15 secs) and pound away. Even assuming the fleet has to go through a couple targets to find a viable marauder to shoot, that's 2x (10+5) + 15 ... leaving 15 seconds left in the marauder's cycle, plenty to get a couple of volleys off even with delays. Of course, the marauder's logi also have to lock him after he comes out of that cycle... which means the attacking fleet will actually have a few seconds further.

[Katrina Oniseki]

First, you appear to have double-posted the general change info in your quote.

Fixed.

[Silas Vitalia]

I might be wrong here, but... Bumping things just got a lot easier. 10x mass increase? I can't wait for people to aggress on stations..

In larger fleets where logis can be useless anyway being able to have wear immunity and increase damage is going to be so ace.

This will get needed to shit after release.

[Saede Riordan]

I admit I didn't consider W-space much, as tactics there tend to be noticeably different than normal PvP, employing a lot of 'niche' hulls.

The small size of wormholes and their mechanics, being rather different then stargates, tends to hurt kiting and give a lot of benefit to brawling. In addition, the ability to fit a cloak in a utility high could be the difference between a ship being awesome, and being useless. Its a very interesting environment, and I can tell you right now, if this hits TQ with these changes, they will become FOTM in wormholes.

[DeadRow]

I might be wrong here, but... Bumping things just got a lot easier. 10x mass increase? I can't wait for people to aggress on stations..

When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping

Sounds likes you won't be bumping anything with these. Not read the changes in full, will read when it isn't 4am so I can actually take in any changes

[Esna Pitoojee]

In larger fleets where logis can be useless anyway being able to have wear immunity and increase damage is going to be so ace.

Question is, can you afford to have these things in larger fleets? When considering this, I did heavily think back to some of the earlier fights in Fountain where TEST Foxcats (Apoc Navy issue doctrine) were badly savaged by Goonswarm Caracal fleets - in true Goonswarm fashion, enormously disparate losses meant nothing when they could replace dozens of cruisers for every hostile killed.

Of course these things will both be considerably toothier and considerably tankier than ANIs, but if I can literally hurl 80-100 cheap, throwaway cruisers at you and still break even by taking down even one of your ships... that's a hefty risk.

[orange]

Well, do we want them to balance the game with the 3000 ship battles in mind or with more realistic 50-250 ships in mind?

Not everyone has the human resources to put 100 cheap ships in space for every Faction BS.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Well, do we want them to balance the game with the 3000 ship battles in mind or with more realistic 50-250 ships in mind?

That depends.

In some cases where those 3000 ship battles become a stability or extreme balance problem, or when the feature/ship is designed explicitly for those large battles, yes we do.

In other cases where something just simply doesn't work as well for a 3000 ship battle as it does for smaller gangs, no change is necessary.

I'd rather not blanket state that CCP should balance around any one philosophy. Take things on a case by case basis.

[Caellach Marellus]

To totally take the thread away from PvP discussion for a second.

I for one welcome our new Blaster Blap Kronos PvE Overlords.

[Silas Vitalia]

Speed set to 0 is not instant stop.   that's why dread pilots wait until they are at 0 before
sieging, otherwise they continue to coast for sometimes disastrous results. Or with cyno ships you can activate the module at speed a d coast inside a pos shield with the cyno on
.

Ps sorry for blatant typos, cell phone auto correct is going to be the death of me

[DeadRow]

Speed set to 0 is not instant stop.   that's why dread pilots wait until they are at 0 before
sieging, otherwise they continue to coast for sometimes disastrous results. Or with cyno ships you can activate the module at speed a d coast inside a pos shield with the cyno on
.

Ps sorry for blatant typos, cell phone auto correct is going to be the death of me

This is why I don't post in the early hours ^^

Know how dread's siege works but my brain just comprehended this one as it'll drop you to 0m/s instantly, herp derp. Pity we'll be waiting a few months for it reaches Sisi.