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[Gabriel Darkefyre]

Indeed. It may be the case that in order to prevent open war erupting CONCORD's got to keep the Minmatar Temper's cooled long enough to allow calmer minds to prevail in the Empire.

If the Matari go off at half cock, then the Heirs currently on the Fence will likely come down onto the reclaiming side, the Treaty of Yulai gets torn up and CONCORD's remit is suddenly gone.

It's less protecting the Matari, as it is protecting the Status Quo.

[Vincent Pryce]

Why would CONCORD even bother sending a delegation to the Minmatar ?

Because they believe, quite rightly, that the most likely Matari response to the Heirs Sabre Rattling would go along the lines of "Oh, Really? *cracks knuckles* Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!"

Well CONCORD did fuck all when the Republic started dicking with the Federation, not to mention the CONCORD :care: ratio is probably not all that high for the Republic if the Empire starts a fullscale invasion. Republic did straight up attack CONCORD at their home system and nuke their command centre. Just sayin'.

[Morwen Lagann]

CONCORD is probably just playing the part to keep up appearances. It's their job after all.

At the rate things are going, I expect that if the Empire did go after the Republic, the conversation with the Federation might go something like this:

MR: So, guize, halp.
GF: Would if we could, sorry.
MR: What do you mean, 'if', you're our ally!
GF: Yeah, and we can't afford to leave our own borders open by reassigning assets to your area when we're already patching the giant hole you punched in it in Algintal, which, by the way, happened to be the group that would've been sent to help.
MR: ...
GF: Should've thought of that, huh? GL HF DD. *click*

[Victoria Stecker]

CONCORD is probably just playing the part to keep up appearances. It's their job after all.

At the rate things are going, I expect that if the Empire did go after the Republic, the conversation with the Federation might go something like this:

MR: So, guize, halp.
GF: Would if we could, sorry.
MR: What do you mean, 'if', you're our ally!
GF: Yeah, and we can't afford to leave our own borders open by reassigning assets to your area when we're already patching the giant hole you punched in it in Algintal, which, by the way, happened to be the group that would've been sent to help.
MR: ...
GF: Should've thought of that, huh? GL HF DD. *click*

We can only hope.

Actually, how much do the Federation need the Republic for power balancing?

What if we ended up with something more like...

The Empire attacks the Republic. The Republic reaches out to the Federation, who respond with laughter and rude gestures. The Republic reach out to the State, who see an opportunity to co-opt the Federation's old ally, and not be as closely tied to the Empire, who have been looking hungry and trigger-happy of late.

So the State end up supporting (not necessarily militarily) the Republic in fighting off the Empire, resulting in the isolation of both the Fed and the Empire, because heaven knows they aren't about to become friends. It's a win for the State and a loss for... basically everyone else, depending on how things go in the Republic.

[Anabella Rella]

Wheeeee! It's so much fun going under the bus! So much fun in fact that after you hit me once, please back up and do it again! 

I could possibly get behind where I think this mess is heading if I believed that CCP had an overall plan. I don't, however. I think that this is just a follow on to the great TonyG purge. Some of this stuff wasn't even necessary because, as was pointed out to me by a good friend, some of the purge victims (Midular) weren't even his creations. His worst offending creations of Jamyl and Shakor are alive and well and stirring up stuff for no apparent reason (other than to satisfy CCP's ongoing need to cause conflict for conflict's sake). It's just not believable for me that leaders of major interstellar civilizations would behave in the ways that CCP's playing them.

The whole affair is making me want to check out of Eve at least for a while. Grim, dark, constant war and destruction gets just as boring as shining happy people holding hands and singing songs all the time.

(Of course, it's not like they actually care about RP or lore consistency and believability. As long as there are thousand ship battles happening in null and people all run 20 alts... or am I being too jaded?)

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

(Of course, it's not like they actually care about RP or lore consistency and believability. As long as there are thousand ship battles happening in null and people all run 20 alts... or am I being too jaded?)

Not in the least. You know how much dough CCP makes off of those nullsec battles in publicity, PLEX and subscription sales?

[Anslol]

The Empire attacks the Republic. The Republic reaches out to the Federation, who respond with laughter and rude gestures. The Republic reach out to the State, who see an opportunity to co-opt the Federation's old ally, and not be as closely tied to the Empire, who have been looking hungry and trigger-happy of late.

So the State end up supporting (not necessarily militarily) the Republic in fighting off the Empire, resulting in the isolation of both the Fed and the Empire, because heaven knows they aren't about to become friends. It's a win for the State and a loss for... basically everyone else, depending on how things go in the Republic.

Doubt it. The State was more opportunistic when Heth was in charge because he was obsessed with smashing the Fed. But, now that things are back to 'normal' and the State is rebuilding, they would probably want to return to their original isolationist policies and just stay out of the affairs of others. That's really what the Caldari are about. Mind your own life, strengthen your own position. Don't take part in the war, but sell arms to everyone who does. And yes I know, you said not militarily, but still. I doubt the State would bother with the conflict in ANY capacity.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Calling the Caldari isolationist isn't quite correct; they don't care what you are doing so long as they believe you pose no threat to them. For some Caldari, this line of thinking is to make others so dependent on them that they can't afford to endanger their good relationship (this is the general way of going with regard to the Khanid and Amarr, for instance), while the other line of thinking, probably more popular among Patriots than Liberals or Practicals, is to assume that if they do threaten you, you can crush them militarily.

This doesn't mean the Caldari don't pay attention to what goes on in other places, or don't take action, overt or otherwise, against people, organizations, or entities they perceive as threats, but in general they try to create a situation where they are on top and then maintain that stability. The "isolationism" exists only in that they don't really care what anyone else is doing so long as the status quo remains. Amarr want slavery? Eh, okay, so long as the Amarr don't get any bright ideas about pushing it in Caldari space. Amarr want to start driving Caldari companies out of their market for religious reasons? Whoa whoa whoa...hold on a second there, buddy.

I think I better way to look at it is that the Caldari do not have a strong foreign policy agenda aside from "make sure our position is secure." Part of this is cultural, but there's also the aspect that the Caldari State is a very divided government, and each of the eight corporations has its own foreign policy agenda, and they often conflict. Whereas the Federation might have a "make the world safe for democracy" agenda or the Amarr a "spread the word of God" agenda that get them involved in things where there is not going to be any sort of substantive gain for them.

[Lyn Farel]

resulting in the isolation of both the Fed and the Empire, because heaven knows they aren't about to become friends.

I don't see how they have less potential to become friends than the Republic and the State personally. I have yet to witness a single treaty between the latter, but between the former it has already happened a few times already.

Politics are not about idealism, they are about converging/diverging interests. The apparent opposition between the Fed and the Amarr ideals only lies in the minds of the masses, but there is no less opposition between Caldari and Minmatar either, they just have yet to discover it.

Wheeeee! It's so much fun going under the bus! So much fun in fact that after you hit me once, please back up and do it again! 

I could possibly get behind where I think this mess is heading if I believed that CCP had an overall plan. I don't, however. I think that this is just a follow on to the great TonyG purge. Some of this stuff wasn't even necessary because, as was pointed out to me by a good friend, some of the purge victims (Midular) weren't even his creations. His worst offending creations of Jamyl and Shakor are alive and well and stirring up stuff for no apparent reason (other than to satisfy CCP's ongoing need to cause conflict for conflict's sake). It's just not believable for me that leaders of major interstellar civilizations would behave in the ways that CCP's playing them.

The whole affair is making me want to check out of Eve at least for a while. Grim, dark, constant war and destruction gets just as boring as shining happy people holding hands and singing songs all the time.

(Of course, it's not like they actually care about RP or lore consistency and believability. As long as there are thousand ship battles happening in null and people all run 20 alts... or am I being too jaded?)

Also that.

Wtb the old leaders back. Resurrect Midular with some obscure :science: and I won't even care for its believability tbh.

Where is that TEA cleansing we constantly hear about ? Heth is the only one, but Jamyl may be decent in appearance, she is still a fucking possessed zombie queen. Heth at least was just a forklift driver. The only cleansing I see is of decent, pre TEA characters.

[Anslol]

Jamyl - Suicide to prevent EVIL DEMANS FROM DESTROYAN GOD'S PEEPEL'S.

Roden - Death by crash (or while killing Blaque after seeing how much they fucked up).

Shakor - Death by that one dude from the Elder fleet that fucked Concord up and used to be the little bitch of the Republic's government. Elder's return with him and ASCENDED RACE BEGINS (that or Project Skymother launches and Shakor dies using it to 'come for his people' in the Federation).

[Esna Pitoojee]

To be honest, I would be perfectly happy to see Shakor and Jamyl remain around... so long as they are written better than this. For instance, I rather liked their personalization in the chronicle "514" - Shakor, for instance, is ever the teasing, needling one, yet when push comes to shove he mans up and accepts that he is going to have to accept what Jamyl is offering. Similarly, Jamyl's depition in "And I Shall Hide" was pleasing; despite the wallbanger-ishness of her return, I dare say she would be a vastly more tolerable character were she always presented as a more humanized, astute, and reasonable character than ZOMBIE PSYCHIC SAVIOR EMPRESS.

The problem is when the story is not written around the characters, but the characters written around the story. Jamyl suffered the most from this in the past, but Shakor's been getting a hefty dose of it lately as well.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

I very much enjoyed how Eterne wrote Jamyl in "And I Shall Hide." I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with Jamyl or Shakor per se, but "possessed crazy space lesbian" just isn't interesting. If they did more to portray her like Eterne did, I would have no problem with her; she wasn't helpless, she wasn't sexualized, she had agency and goals.

Shakor...well, someone needs to confront the fact that he basically shoved Midular out of the way and pulled off a military coup. I know it's a bit more nuanced than that, but I can't imagine that the sudden appearance of the Elder Fleet and the way he shoved Midular out of the way went over super well with EVERYONE in the Republic. The problem isn't necessarily him as a character, but the fact that he can evidently do no wrong. Conflict is a good thing, and it doesn't all have to be the shooty spaceship kind.

[Louella Dougans]

unless ccp are willing to scrap the game mechanics of an entire expansion (empyrean age), then, any story development is going to be trivial.

I don't see that being very likely

[Saede Riordan]

To be honest, I would be perfectly happy to see Shakor and Jamyl remain around... so long as they are written better than this. For instance, I rather liked their personalization in the chronicle "514" - Shakor, for instance, is ever the teasing, needling one, yet when push comes to shove he mans up and accepts that he is going to have to accept what Jamyl is offering. Similarly, Jamyl's depition in "And I Shall Hide" was pleasing; despite the wallbanger-ishness of her return, I dare say she would be a vastly more tolerable character were she always presented as a more humanized, astute, and reasonable character than ZOMBIE PSYCHIC SAVIOR EMPRESS.

The problem is when the story is not written around the characters, but the characters written around the story. Jamyl suffered the most from this in the past, but Shakor's been getting a hefty dose of it lately as well.

So much this.

[Lyn Farel]

Well written or not, she remains a possessed zombie empress. At least Shakor and Roden/Blaque/Foiritain do not suffer from that kind of unremovable stain.

Heth neither, but the stain with Heth was directly what he represented for the State.

Midular had a stain too, so well... Maybe better she being dead. What is depressing is that she was one where good writing was actually involved before TEA, like most of the old leaders, and the old news. Much more mundane world building in these btw. In the new piece of news, we only get the important ones, with a lot of silence in between. Storyarcs become even more obvious to guess, when it was not the case before since we had mundane news every day, creating a lot of noise and immersion around. It felt more real and less constrained.