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[Sepherim]

I agree on names that are cultural references. Most cultural references are, relatively, universal or broadly common. There are dragons, for example, in most cultures. So someone mentioning a dragon would be no problem for me. Even more direct references, like Zeus, would be acceptable, as I would think he refers to an equal cultural reference that probably would exist somewhere in EVE, specially if the reference is rather vague or a bit rare. Or in case they convey a lot of meaning in one direct cultural reference, like the three norns.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

The general delineation I make is:

Using names derived from RL things, outside of other context: Usually cool.

Using names of RL things, in the context of their RL usage: Usually not cool.

I concur. I name my ships after female warriors and war goddesses. This means I sometimes have to come up with some odd IC justifications. For example I called one ship Phoolan Devi and made up some fluff about her being a legendary rebel leader from early Athran history.

Likewise I used Paksennarion and explained it as ironic usage of an Ammarian saint's name.

When I use Gaelic or Celtic names I usually figure some sort of Gallente conection. Norse ones are, obviously enough, Minmatar. It's easy enough. Especially if you figure that these are confused versions of the original stories associated with the name.

[Desiderya]

In the case of Stockholm syndrome you could weasel your way out and claim that it's named after the guy/gal who described it first.

[Ché Biko]

Every now and then, I like to quote a philosopher or poet. How I do this varies, sometimes I make an anagram out of the name, sometimes I'll just say "it's from an old poet" or "a popular band".
But maybe we can pretend that there was a Nietzsche in our universe? Perhaps a band called "Radiohead" currently tours the empires? It seems to me that pretending to do so is less cumbersome than having to come up with a whole universe of culture ourselves. And that does not even take into account what happens when two players make up different origins for certain quotes.

[Saede Riordan]

In my opinion:

Using words in the academic sense, Andreus mentioned Stockholm Syndrome, other things, scientific terms, sociological terms, etc, totally fair game because of the impossibility of using anything else.

To use actual people's names, or place names as in, you use the name in association with that person/place specifically and personally and not with the idea/event associated with the place or with that person (ref. Kreditbanken robbery in Stockholm, where Stockholm Syndrome takes its popular name) breaks the fourth wall.

Helpful diagram:
"I was recently at Stockholm" Not Acceptable
"I think Andreus is suffering from severe Stockholm Syndrome" Acceptable

Or

"I am familiar with the works of Machiavelli" Not Acceptable
"Silas Vitalia recently poisoned her rivals at a banquet, bit Machiavellian of her to be honest" Acceptable

However, one thing I believe is broadly acceptable is angrams and combinations.

Say you're making an alt, Gallente, and want a fancy-pants name. But you don't want to spend an hour reading Homer's Odyssey/Old Maori Legends/The Tale of the 47 Ronin, so you just pick two names familliar to you and combine:

"Stanislaw Olbricht" - First word taken from Stanislaw Lem, sci-fi writer most famous for the novel "Solaris", and second word taken from General Friedrich Olbricht, leading figure in the July 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler.

Also using cultural language or terms in names is generally acceptable.

This basically. Its an unfortunate fact that a lot of science is named after places, and after dead people, its generally assumed this science exists in New Eden, as they are far more advanced then we are. Ignoring the possibility that everyone in New Eden are secretly mages and everything works by magic, all science that exists on Earth today can be assumed to exist in New Eden. So how do we refer to like, the Planck length, or Lorentz Currents, or any manner of things like that, other then to either make up fucktons of IC terms for everything, or to handwave the english ones?

Every now and then, I like to quote a philosopher or poet. How I do this varies, sometimes I make an anagram out of the name, sometimes I'll just say "it's from an old poet" or "a popular band".
But maybe we can pretend that there was a Nietsche in our universe? Perhaps a band called "Radiohead" currently tours the empires? It seems to me that pretending to do so is less cumbersome than having to come up with a whole universe of culture ourselves. And that does not even take into account what happens when two players make up different origins for certain quotes.

I can actually agree with a lot of that.

I'm fine with a ship named Pendragon but would find one named Obama fourth-wall breaking.

HMS Thanks Obama is go for deployment.

[Lyn Farel]

Every now and then, I like to quote a philosopher or poet. How I do this varies, sometimes I make an anagram out of the name, sometimes I'll just say "it's from an old poet" or "a popular band".
But maybe we can pretend that there was a Nietsche in our universe? Perhaps a band called "Radiohead" currently tours the empires? It seems to me that pretending to do so is less cumbersome than having to come up with a whole universe of culture ourselves. And that does not even take into account what happens when two players make up different origins for certain quotes.

Tends a little to break he suspension of disbelief for me tbh.

[Evi Polevhia]

Only read bits and pieces of this thread. So just gonna toss in my two cents and be off.

We have to susped disbelief in some areas. We are all speaking english, using english idioms and english puns. Granted it is all under the guise of  a translator. But Amarrian idioms shouldn't really translate into Caldari, so we can forgive some things. Like I would say Stockholm Syndrome is ok. Just try not to dig into the word in character and start discussing the Amarrian city of Stockholm, cause then it gets really weird.

Likewise I can't remember when but I saw someone quote an "ancient Gallente politician named Thomas Jefferson", it was like nails on a chalkboard.

So try, I guess, to keep things vague? Or make up something. Add to the world of EVE Online rather then copy pasting Earth in. We left Earth behind many years ago.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

I'm the same as most people here. I don't mind using mythological or ancient names for things, people or places, or even the occasional tasteful and subtle reference to more modern stuff. But people outright quoting real life individuals from pop culture or recent history or chatting about a game/movie/whatever from real life ICly completely kills my buzz because it takes me out of the world. Every time I hear someones character singing a modern day song in the Summit, for example, it makes me want to leave the channel.

Every now and then, I like to quote a philosopher or poet. How I do this varies, sometimes I make an anagram out of the name, sometimes I'll just say "it's from an old poet" or "a popular band".
But maybe we can pretend that there was a Nietzsche in our universe? Perhaps a band called "Radiohead" currently tours the empires? It seems to me that pretending to do so is less cumbersome than having to come up with a whole universe of culture ourselves. And that does not even take into account what happens when two players make up different origins for certain quotes.

In all honesty, I couldn't disagree more. Filling the "gaps" in the world presented to us by the game with things from real life doesn't enhance the universe we're playing in - It simply makes it less distinct from our own, and thus, in my opinion, less interesting. Part of the reason that Eve roleplay is compelling to me is that it gives one an ability to explore societies that grew in wildly different directions then our own. Referencing cultural products (or even concepts, for that matter) from our universe that may well not even exist seems to completely defeat the point.

I've roleplayed in a bucketload of fantasy settings where referencing "real world" stuff would seem outright ridiculous, and I've only enjoyed them all the more for it. I'm not sure how this is different.

[Lyn Farel]

Oh, gwen explained what I was unable to explain properly.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Every now and then, I like to quote a philosopher or poet. How I do this varies, sometimes I make an anagram out of the name, sometimes I'll just say "it's from an old poet" or "a popular band".
But maybe we can pretend that there was a Nietzsche in our universe? Perhaps a band called "Radiohead" currently tours the empires? It seems to me that pretending to do so is less cumbersome than having to come up with a whole universe of culture ourselves. And that does not even take into account what happens when two players make up different origins for certain quotes.

In all honesty, I couldn't disagree more. Filling the "gaps" in the world presented to us by the game with things from real life doesn't enhance the universe we're playing in - It simply makes it less distinct from our own, and thus, in my opinion, less interesting. Part of the reason that Eve roleplay is compelling to me is that it gives one an ability to explore societies that grew in wildly different directions then our own. Referencing cultural products (or even concepts, for that matter) from our universe that may well not even exist seems to completely defeat the point.

I've roleplayed in a bucketload of fantasy settings where referencing "real world" stuff would seem outright ridiculous, and I've only enjoyed them all the more for it. I'm not sure how this is different.

I'm not quite sure about this and I think it's not a clear-cut thing at all, but rather a sliding scale. Most fantasy settings have knight and chivalric codes that are more or less 1:1 adaptations from 'our universe', even the more foreign fantasy settings steal IRL here or there, because there are more than enough cultures in the history of our planet and in the wide spaces of the globe that are quite alien to us - oftentimes in a way that we wouldn't imagine.

The other thing is a question of how universal certain concepts are and whether they get eventually expressed by any culture (be it in form of philosophical prose, scientific articles or art, like music or poems), including a far-future cultures, because they are recurring themes.

I think the sliding-scale thing is also true for names. And what is acceptable for one person might not be for another. Korean people might react differently on the use of the name of an ancient Korean Kingdom than European or American. And similarly as geographical distance plays a role, temporal distance surely will. For example Germans tend to react quite strongly to the use of names from Nazis, even if they weren't that high up in the hierarchy, because of the emotive resonance that this part of German history still evokes.

So, while I think that the above given 'rules of thumb' are good, I don't see how these can avoid all conflict in the matter. What's important, I think, is how such conflict is handled if it arises.

[Aria Jenneth]

One of the primary issues with just making up names is that my mind sort of defaults to pseudo-Celtic nonsense, and sifting through bits of random verbiage from other languages is about as reliable as selecting random Chinese characters to get tattooed on your hide.

Pre-existing names have the advantages that come with linguistic pedigree, and the baggage. They can be a boon to worldbuilding, or a blight, but I think one thing that might help is some explicit recognition of the link. It's not as though the Terrans were never around, after all. It would be neat to find out, for example, that some precursor text on ancient mythology strongly influenced early Gallentean culture, and is still housed in some museum on Gallente Prime, or that the Minmatar found an old copy of Wagner's Ring Cycle.

It would also be nice to have confirmed that a few Terran animals made the trip to New Eden alongside humanity-- wolves, ravens, possibly even some explanation for why the Caldari know what a moa was well enough to build a ship resembling one. Cloned or genetically-reengineered moas, maybe?

[Saede Riordan]

I'm working on starting a...catalogue of sorts I guess you could call it, of little bits of fluff fiction. I'm hoping to write up some more soon, I have quite a few more to add to my present list. Its my hope that the usage of this stuff catches on, and the list gets much longer. I think have lots and lots of little bits of fluff to grab at means there's less of a need to take it from irl.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

Hm. I suppose I might've presented it as a little too cut and dry, there. Obviously people from different cultures are going to find different things immersion breaking - One persons "distant and exotic" is anothers "too close to home", so to speak.

Perhaps it's better to put it this way: Eve's universe is intended, both in-setting and in a meta sense, to be sort of a dark reflection/evolution of our own. Obviously there's going to be a lot of echos (There certainly are in PF, with all the ship names and a lot of the cultural stuff), and that's fine. It only really becomes a problem for me (and this is subjective, of course) when they cease to be echos and become outright shoutouts that aren't even integrated into the setting in a clever way whatsoever - Just pointless namedrops or quotes that stick out like a sore thumb in the middle of a conversation, akin to World of Warcrafts pop culture loving sense of humor.

What I mean is, in the end, it's all in the presentation. It needs to be sufficiently subtle for me to not be reminded "Oh, we're actually all a bunch of dorks at our computers" constantly.

As long as that's the case, I'm willing to forgive anything except extremely modern or specific references. And I certainly have no problem with using words for old mythological concepts, places, or even referencing specific tales. If I did, I'd dare say I'd be quite a hypocrite.

[Samira Kernher]

It would also be nice to have confirmed that a few Terran animals made the trip to New Eden alongside humanity-- wolves, ravens, possibly even some explanation for why the Caldari know what a moa was well enough to build a ship resembling one. Cloned or genetically-reengineered moas, maybe?

Wolves definitely didn't. The Wolf description outright says that wolves are a mythological animal.

I'd see wolves in New Eden as like dire wolves today. Something that might be provable to have once existed with science, but no longer does. It's more likely that the Terrans brought over domesticated dogs, and that during the dark age these dogs got released and became wild again. So we won't have wolves in New Eden, but would have "wild dogs."

Same thing probably happened with other domesticated animals.

[Karmilla Strife]

I don't have a problem using RL terms to convey a concept much easier than making something up.  For example I'd rather say "Karmilla eats olives", than "Karmilla eats pickled Athran Oildrupes." Olives may not have necessarily made it to the New Eden cluster, but the character could be eating something similar enough in taste and function.

For me, I think the point where this starts to break down is direct attributed references. I don't think we'd know who Nietzsche was, or be able to quote him. But there's a reasonable chance that someone has come up with a similar philosophy at some time/place in the cluster.