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[orange]

Sorry, I failed to get my point across.  The Chronicle is not written from a neutral point of view and could be viewed as bias supporting the Patriot, Lai Dai view of the world.

[Mithfindel]

The Practicals are the exception to all of this: they're better described as "looters," and are the State faction with the absolute least sense of responsibility for the wellbeing of the Caldari. They're kind of infamous for this. Fortunately, they are few in number, but I find it telling that they're the only State faction that was actually happy to see Heth's rise, even if his beliefs superficially seem to align more closely with those of the Patriots.

Practical corporations are, from largest to smallest, Sukuuvestaa, CBD and Nugoeihuvi. Of these, Sukuuvestaa is the second-largest corp in the State, and the largest real estate corporation. CBD is amongst the largest import/export corps in New Eden, I think, and their retail division is alright. Nugoeihuvi is small-ish, but it is the largest media corp in the State, and owns the Expert brand, of which Expert Distribution retail is everywhere. So, there is a lot of Patriots, almost certainly many more than Liberals (though we do not have the numbers).

Though yes, Practicals could be considered the embodiment of the hypercapitalist side of the State: The primary goal is making profit, period. They supported Heth, because at least initially, Heth was good at improving profits. His changes were probably also creating a nice cover for some less-than-legal deals, if you want to find a grimdark side on everything. Lots of things going around, so easier to miss a few minor details.

Finally, one might claim that Ishukone was Practical before Gariushi took over - though their "free trade" policies would have probably been heritage of the capsule and CONCORD regulations forcing them to sell the tech to other empires.

[Vikarion]

The Patriots believe in what Aria used to call "porcupine diplomacy," believing in a strong military and isolationist trading policies.

Aria, IIRC, it's the Practicals with the Mercantilist bent, not the Patriots. As I recall, the Patriots generally work on a case-by-case basis (trade with allies, not so much with enemies).

[Aria Jenneth]

Aria, IIRC, it's the Practicals with the Mercantilist bent, not the Patriots. As I recall, the Patriots generally work on a case-by-case basis (trade with allies, not so much with enemies).

My impression's always been that the Patriots worked on a general philosophy of "take care of our own, first, last, and always," while the Practicals just went with whatever suited them best.

And I keep forgetting-- is it the Liberal bloc that just has two megas? I keep thinking it's the Practicals.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

As I understand it, the Patriots believe the State should be completely isolationist. The Practicals believe in trade with outsiders - but only on terms that benefit the State and hurt the Jaiji. Liberals believe that trade that aids both sides is possible, but the State should benefit the most.

[orange]

And I keep forgetting-- is it the Liberal bloc that just has two megas?

Ishukone and Hyasyoda.

As I understand it, the Patriots believe the State should be completely isolationist. The Practicals believe in trade with outsiders - but only on terms that benefit the State and hurt the Jaiji. Liberals believe that trade that aids both sides is possible, but the State should benefit the most.

Practicals are mostly concerned with the profit of their enterprises through whatever means necessary.

Liberals want to encourage free trade and support the idea of win-win.

Patriots want a strong State (across the instruments of power) in order to never again be subject to the desires of outsiders.  In other words, Patriots support the economic policies that strengthen the State's position internationally most directly.

[Saede Riordan]

Well, if the State goes down the Roman path to crowning an emperor it sort of brings up a new question.

Who gets to be Hannibal?  When will the barbarians sack Rome?

Timeline in the wrong direction.  Hannibal and the Punic Wars were prior to Sulla and Caesar.

So who are the Visigoths then? 

[Vikarion]

Well, if the State goes down the Roman path to crowning an emperor it sort of brings up a new question.

Who gets to be Hannibal?  When will the barbarians sack Rome?

Timeline in the wrong direction.  Hannibal and the Punic Wars were prior to Sulla and Caesar.

So who are the Visigoths then?

I'll be over here with my copy of Decline and Fall, crying. 

[Creep]

So, the Garden Lady CEO is that Cleopetra lady what got bitten in the ass?

[Lithium Flower]

Finally, one might claim that Ishukone was Practical before Gariushi took over - though their "free trade" policies would have probably been heritage of the capsule and CONCORD regulations forcing them to sell the tech to other empires.

They were liberals, just not in common, but in Caldari sense. Gariushi built them according to his own vision. Just like Heth made his own version of patriots, Gariushi made his own version of liberals.

[orange]

Well fuck.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Well fuck.

I don't see this going anywhere productive for Heth. It may look bad when placed in a paranoid context of this thread... but nah. The other Seven are like "lol cool story bro", KK is out of money, and Heth is out of political currency. He's barely even alive right now.

If there is a civil war, it will be a very short one.

[orange]

Well fuck.

I don't see this going anywhere productive for Heth. It may look bad when placed in a paranoid context of this thread... but nah. The other Seven are like "lol cool story bro", KK is out of money, and Heth is out of political currency. He's barely even alive right now.

If there is a civil war, it will be a very short one.

I am thinking beyond that.  What happens when the pendulum swings the other way.

For example, is Ishukone actually independent of the Federation?  Or will demands from the President and Senate cause Ishukone to bend to the will of the Federation?

Can Lai Dai actually survive the collapse of KK, or will it become isolated and bankrupt by its market competition with Ishukone and  political opposition from SuVee?

Is SuVee interested in protecting the Sov of Hyasyoda, Wiyrkomi, etc?  Or will they take what they want in the State as payment for debts (at gunpoint)?

The civil war shouldn't be simple and the various outcomes I can think of are all worse for the State than the Second Raata Empire.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I am thinking beyond that.  What happens when the pendulum swings the other way.

For example, is Ishukone actually independent of the Federation?  Or will demands from the President and Senate cause Ishukone to bend to the will of the Federation?

Yes to the first, no to the second. I hope. At least, if CCP pulls that shit on us, I'll send Falcon a strongly worded mail and promptly quit Caldari RP.

Can Lai Dai actually survive the collapse of KK, or will it become isolated and bankrupt by its market competition with Ishukone and  political opposition from SuVee?

Is Lai Dai indebted to KK? If not, then I don't see why they wouldn't possibly benefit from KK's collapse. Picking up the scraps and solidifying power. Wiyrkomi is also sortof a 'friend' in the Patriot bloc. At any rate, I doubt we'll see KK collapse completely. I think Haatakan Oirtisuu (sp?) will make a comeback.

Is SuVee interested in protecting the Sov of Hyasyoda, Wiyrkomi, etc?  Or will they take what they want in the State as payment for debts (at gunpoint)?

Why would they be? Hyasyoda is Liberal and Wiyrkomi is Patriot. SuVee doesn't even care about its own Practical allies.

The civil war shouldn't be simple and the various outcomes I can think of are all worse for the State than the Second Raata Empire.

The civil war will be the other Seven beating down a power grab attempt by Heth and nothing more.

The CEP is still a functioning and effective entity, one without any visible extra squabbling among the other Seven. I have no reason to think that everything will suddenly fall apart and everybody will suddenly be at each other's throats once Heth is removed from power and the extremely unlikely event of a complete collapse by KK.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Kat Kat... Ishukone is no longer the flat-broke Mega. :3