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[Aria Jenneth]

Looking at the PF some more (TEA excepted, I could never get into that thing) and reading the thread on cloning in the Eve Fiction forums, I'm starting to lean more towards cloning being a real-time thing only. Something about the fluid relay, perhaps.

But ... "Jita 4-4" ...

Gah, I don't even know. That one's not wholly consistent either because it implies continuity of consciousness. I think for the moment soft clones are on the border of quasi-canon-- stuff that makes sense in context and constantly verges on being flat-out verified, but isn't.

[Natalcya Katla]

It was flat-out verified, until they retconned that passage away.

As far as the particulars of cloning go, I have pretty much decided to keep interpreting it as I always have, and to hell with CCP's shifting whims. My characters have soft clones, their use of jump clones do not fry the brain of the body they jump from, and if anyone takes issue with that I honestly don't give a shit. I'm not retconning my RP because <Suddenly  >

[Morwen Lagann]

It was flat-out verified, until they retconned that passage away.

As far as the particulars of cloning go, I have pretty much decided to keep interpreting it as I always have, and to hell with CCP's shifting whims. My characters have soft clones, their use of jump clones do not fry the brain of the body they jump from, and if anyone takes issue with that I honestly don't give a shit. I'm not retconning my RP because <Suddenly  >

Take your pick: These three pictures all sum up my thoughts.

[Creep]

^^^^
THIS.


Fuck this "no soft cloning" bullshit.

[Samira Kernher]

Therefore, let us assume that clone templates, before activation, have levels of brain damage (or rather, no brain) such that before the new brain is burned to the icky gooey parts, it does not have personality nor any ability to stay biologically alive without life support. Which makes the Good Guy Amarrian from TEA extremely lucky to have just enough stuff written in the brain to have only amnesia and a personality change.

This is correct. Before activation, the clone's brain is just gray mush, and once activation starts, the process is gradual, with a snap-burning followed by fine tuning. Said TEA guy probably got the snap-burning done but had the fine tuning interrupted.

[Aria Jenneth]

I'm certainly sufficiently accustomed to having to include soft clones in conversations about capsuleer "immortality" that they seem to be de facto canon even if they're technically not. And, as noted above, there are plenty of bits indicating that death out of pod is not permadeath.

The simplest way to explain that is with soft clones, because you capsuleers out there definitely don't have DUST implants.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Looking at the PF some more (TEA excepted, I could never get into that thing) and reading the thread on cloning in the Eve Fiction forums, I'm starting to lean more towards cloning being a real-time thing only. Something about the fluid relay, perhaps.

But ... "Jita 4-4" ...

Gah, I don't even know. That one's not wholly consistent either because it implies continuity of consciousness. I think for the moment soft clones are on the border of quasi-canon-- stuff that makes sense in context and constantly verges on being flat-out verified, but isn't.

Yeah. There sadly isn't a lot of consistency around cloning at all. The thread currently simmering in Eve Fiction is interesting because it's clear that there isn't a consistent position within CCP, either. Falcon's position that "loads of people have used it in their backstories and RP, so I'd like to see it be official" is heartening, though.

[Louella Dougans]

the prospect of a character being killed out of pod (with a spoon), was one of the points made against the idea of Incarna.

the recent, shelved, thing about multiplayer exploration of space stations with expendable clones, was a thing suggested as something that Incarna was useful for.

Not just disagreement at CCP story department. Game mechanics also confused.


what purpose do soft clones have at this point ? Other than consequence-free RP in otherwise dangerous circumstances.

[lallara zhuul]

Yeah. There sadly isn't a lot of consistency around cloning at all. The thread currently simmering in Eve Fiction is interesting because it's clear that there isn't a consistent position within CCP, either. Falcon's position that "loads of people have used it in their backstories and RP, so I'd like to see it be official" is heartening, though.

I would view it as exactly the opposite.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

what purpose do soft clones have at this point ? Other than consequence-free RP in otherwise dangerous circumstances.

For me? Mostly background story. I'd like to know, one way or another. The more I think about it the more I'd prefer the idea that you can't simply make backups, that you can only do a clone transfer in real-time. But in the end, I just want some sort of final word on it.

[Ché Biko]

If softcloning is deemed not fitting with the setting, then I am still in favor of the solution I posted on the EVE-O thread: Don't retcon, but create new fiction like that CONCORD and the empires make it illegal.

That might even leave some room for players that still want to use it, while still restricting it. Now, the already costly softclones will become more expensive, and you'll likely have to put your trust in some shady criminal organization, with all the risks that come with that.

But if a major NPC gets publicly assasinated, he is still effectively removed from the chessboard, wether the NPC clones or not, which might solve one of the problems CCP has with softcloning if I'm right.

[kalaratiri]

what purpose do soft clones have at this point ? Other than consequence-free RP in otherwise dangerous circumstances.

Honestly for me, this is enough. Having characters killed off in ways you don't want is very annoying. Especially if you've put a long time investment into them.

EDIT: 20,000th post in OOC Summit. Great Success.

[lallara zhuul]

That's the thing.

Soft clones are free.

They're made of handwavium.

Not expensive commodity only for the rich and few for a great price.

There is nothing actually done by the player or the character to gain access to a soft clone, not in game.
No training time lost, no ISK spent.

It is a different thing to put sixty million ISK to a jumpclone and take it where you need it.
Work with the time limitations you have for jumping your clone.
The hassle you have to deal with changing your training queue.
Actually having something to do when you are working with some concept that is in-game.

I would think that having a 'soft clone', a jump clone left in a freezer with its brain intact, would be a good workaround the lack of existance of soft clones within the game.

At least it would be something.

I'm not retconning my RP because <Suddenly  >

Yet TEA happened and pretty much all the Roleplayers had to change their RP or leave the game.

[Silver Night]

That's the thing.

Soft clones are free.

They're made of handwavium.

Not expensive commodity only for the rich and few for a great price.

There is nothing actually done by the player or the character to gain access to a soft clone, not in game.
No training time lost, no ISK spent.

It is a different thing to put sixty million ISK to a jumpclone and take it where you need it.
Work with the time limitations you have for jumping your clone.
The hassle you have to deal with changing your training queue.
Actually having something to do when you are working with some concept that is in-game.

I would think that having a 'soft clone', a jump clone left in a freezer with its brain intact, would be a good workaround the lack of existance of soft clones within the game.

At least it would be something.

I'm not retconning my RP because <Suddenly  >

Yet TEA happened and pretty much all the Roleplayers had to change their RP or leave the game.

You're thinking, perhaps, of medical clones. Jump clones are super cheap (relatively).

As far as reasons for 'soft clones', they can lead to interesting situations - I think the 'classic' would be someone kills you, you wake up in a soft clone and have to piece together what happened. There are certainly others.

Edit: As far as TEA, there are other options. Like not examining certain parts of it too closely, or worrying about every single detail too much.   

[Morwen Lagann]

Had an interesting chat w/ Greyscale at the charity dinner about soft cloning. It'll be brought up at the storyline panel later today.