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[Andreus Ixiris]

So as far as I can tell, so far, Gallente have been utterly shafted, Caldari have gotten slapped pretty hard, Amarrians aren't looking too pretty and the Minmatar are pretty much the only ones who came out of this with any improvements.

[DeadRow]

So as far as I can tell, so far, Gallente have been utterly shafted, Caldari have gotten slapped pretty hard, Amarrians aren't looking too pretty and the Minmatar are pretty much the only ones who came out of this with any improvements.

Not really, Domi change is awesome. Hope they drop the utility High on the Mega for for a mid so it becomes 7/5/7. Hype I dunno, I want 5 mids but I think it might'll cope. Just less viable solo.

Not sure how the Amarr aren't looking pretty from this change. Tracking bonus on that Apoc ftw, Abaddon hardly touched and the geddon becoming a beast.

Caldari; Rokh, again untouched. Raven; more fittings 7th mid and faster. Scorpion; more HP.

Matari; Nano-Pest might not be viable anymore against the Phoon which comes awesome and less SP intensive. Maelstrom like all old tier 3s isn't changed.

On the whole loving the early ideas they have brought to Battleships.
-Deadie

[kalaratiri]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2858150#post2858150

Hi again Gallente friends!

We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.

Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.

Thanks again for the input!

Hyperion and Megathron stats have been removed from the OP and replaced with "Coming Soon...", will do the same here and update when the new stats are out.

[kalaratiri]

Also, a look into Rise's thoughts on the original Hyp/Mega changes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2856020#post2856020

I must say, you guys do have a theatrical flair.

Look its 10pm and I'm trying to keep caught up on this, but I promise tomorrow we will go back through this Gal lineup and see if we can resolve some of the frustration.

I know I tried to lay out our intentions in the OP, but I want to lay it out again, just to make sure we're on the same page. I understand that many of you here aren't satisfied so we'll go back over it tomorrow and look at our options. In the mean time maybe this will help.

In the Megathron and the Hyperion, we had two ships that more or less shared some space. They were both armor focused blaster brawlers. The mega was armor focused because of its slot layout - but it had increased utility from one extra high slot and a larger drone bay, and also had an easier time applying damage because of the tracking bonus. Then we had the Hyperion which was bonused to look more like a heavy brawler - focused completely on damage and tank, because of having no utility high, less drones, and a tank focused bonus instead of tracking.

In my personal experience, I felt both ships came up short because they didn't play to their strengths enough. The mega seemed like it wanted to be more like a tempest, less concerned with tank, more focused on utility. A heavy tackler, a hit and run ship (MJD), a ship that could move fast and gank if supported. People tended to run light armor tanks (2 plates 2eanms 1dcu 2 mag stab) as the basic setup, but sometimes tried active setups which usually used more lows for tank. The hyp on the other hand always had almost all lows dedicated to tanking because of only having 6, and so its damage struggled to compete (unless it was some kind of shield fit).

The plan here was to fill in both ships' strength. The hyp would provide more power in pure tank and dps by having an extra low for mag stab or TE or resists, and it would sacrifice some utility. The mega would have more utility, again, playing to its strength - and the increased damage from turrets would make up for the lost low somewhat.

I can see many of you don't agree, and thats fine. I want you guys to love these ships so we're going to spend some time going over feedback and see what looks like a good direction to go.

I think if at all possible, we'd like to keep the armor rep bonus on the Hyperion. Its just too late in the ship line to toss out Gallente's signature tank bonus, despite the fact that many of you might want us to.

We are willing to consider many of the suggestions so far. Rolling another bonus into the rep bonus (like rep cap use) could be possible, changing the slot allocation, and adjusting fittings to give it more room are all on the table.

Thanks for the feedback, it won't be ignored.

[kalaratiri]

And a response to the Minmatar feedback: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2859548#post2859548

Hey guys

We're going to post a few tweaks tomorrow based on feedback from all the threads, minmatar included.

To answer a couple things though -

I think the comparison between the raven and the typhoon is kind of surprising. Both ships will now be able to field 6 missile launchers, so they have that in common, but thats really where it stops. The typhoon is the fastest of all the battleships by a substantial margin. It has the fastest align time and fastest mwd speed of anything available. This strikes me as very 'minmatar'. Along with that, while its losing some of the extreme versatility it had before, it still supplies quite a few options both offensively and defensively, while the Raven is quite clearly a dedicated shield ship.

As for the tempest, I think what we are now looking at is having the tempest be part of the 'attack' category as well as the typhoon. It already behaves more or less like an attack ship, and maybe adding hp and increasing sig wasn't adding much to the overall ship. So we will likely bring the sig back down to near where it was before, take some of the hp back, and increase its speed slightly.

Both ships will still offer flexibility in the way they are used that is fairly unique to minmatar.

Check back for tweaks in the next couple days and keep the feedback coming =)

[Vikarion]

Caldari; Rokh, again untouched. Raven; more fittings 7th mid and faster. Scorpion; more HP.

Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure the Rokh loses some resists, the Raven loses a huge chunk of EHP, and Scorpions are only bait anymore anyway.

After this patch, the only reason to fly any Caldari battleship will be if you haven't trained anything else. But that's no real change.

[Silas Vitalia]

Caldari; Rokh, again untouched. Raven; more fittings 7th mid and faster. Scorpion; more HP.

Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure the Rokh loses some resists, the Raven loses a huge chunk of EHP, and Scorpions are only bait anymore anyway.

After this patch, the only reason to fly any Caldari battleship will be if you haven't trained anything else. But that's no real change.

Rokh fleets with rails continue to be completely boss. Just wait until the Torp / Cruise buff comes in you'll see this very differently.  Ravens.... everywhere.

[DeadRow]

Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure the Rokh loses some resists, the Raven loses a huge chunk of EHP, and Scorpions are only bait anymore anyway.

After this patch, the only reason to fly any Caldari battleship will be if you haven't trained anything else. But that's no real change.

Correct, I should have said hardly touched. I doubt when the numbers come in the -1% isn't going to have much of an affect. Didn't actually see the HP decrease for the Raven first time around, will have to play with a modded EFT to see how badly it affects it.

[kalaratiri]

The 1% resist reduction on the Abaddon and Rokh turn out (unsurprisingly) to be a 5% reduction in ehp. So still lots.

[Silas Vitalia]

Ridiculous nerf for Abaddon / Rokh.

[Ember Vykos]

Ridiculous nerf for Abaddon / Rokh.

The 1% resist reduction on the Abaddon and Rokh turn out (unsurprisingly) to be a 5% reduction in ehp. So still lots.

While the EHP loss isn't trivial, I don't think it's a deal breaker. They're still good ships in their own right (I know the Rokh get the short end of the stick, but I've always liked it). I think given their uses, at least when I was playing, I don't think much will change except maybe seeing more of the other boats floating around now.

[kalaratiri]

Honestly, considering the incredible potency of reps under high resists, I think this is a good move. Yes, it reduces the ehp slightly (220k down to 209k on the Abaddon, the end is nigh) but they're still going to be battleships with the highest resists (and therefore large fleet survivability) and biggest logi tanks of anything non-T2.

[BloodBird]

All of my Rage at the changed to the Armageddon 

My lovely laser boat!

YOU MOTHERFUCKERS 

I like that they change things around to have more use out of different ships - after all Amarr basically had 3 different flavors of laser boats and nothing else going for it in the battleship range.

But why not the Apoc for the missile/Drone/Neut boat? The Armageddon is the epitome, iconic lazor-beast.

[DeadRow]

All of my Rage at the changed to the Armageddon 

My lovely laser boat!

YOU MOTHERFUCKERS 

I like that they change things around to have more use out of different ships - after all Amarr basically had 3 different flavors of laser boats and nothing else going for it in the battleship range.

But why not the Apoc for the missile/Drone/Neut boat? The Armageddon is the epitome, iconic lazor-beast.

Because the geddon can already field 5 heavies and it's bhaalgorn cousin has a neut bonus is my guess.

[Lyn Farel]

To my eyes, the huge golden hulls firing lazors with their mighty presence have always been apocalypses. The apocalypse is the epitome of Amarr supremacy and golden fleets.

Seeing it turned into a drone/neuting platform... Too blood raider to my tastes.