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[orange]

I am going to be horrible for a moment.

While it is not heavily trafficked, you are welcome to invite someone to have a "no-rules"* discussion on what they are doing in Eve at Chatsubo.

*Please follow the scant rules that are there like no porn, spam, or actually illegal posts.

[Silver Night]

I am going to be horrible for a moment.

While it is not heavily trafficked, you are welcome to invite someone to have a "no-rules"* discussion on what they are doing in Eve at Chatsubo.

*Please follow the scant rules that are there like no porn, spam, or actually illegal posts.

I would (and have in the past, and continue to) recommend this, for people who feel the rules here are too restrictive. Chatsubo doesn't have a YDIW rule. You're still a mod there, right?

[orange]

I am and while there is no YDIW rule, those engaging it are warned that other users will point it out in the guidelines.

Users are entitled to say that someone is 'wrong'. For that matter, users are entitled to say that someone's 'RP is wrong', but should note that it is considered quite discourteous and other forum users will likely point this out in a more or less robust manner (unless the person being told they are wrong is claiming that the Cylons live on Amarr Prime or something of the sort).

Users are entitled to their opinion and to state it so long as it does not amount to a direct attack, a derogatory or defamatory OOC accusation of some kind or a racist, (or sexist, etc.) exhortation.

Link

What this really means is that a discussion about whether or not characters in PIE should hang out with Blooders in a Minmatar Bar is fine so long as folks can manage to be at least as pleasant as debating politicians (and hopefully not as boring).

[Lyn Farel]

Edit2: Also, I'm not suggesting that in this case Morwen made a mistake. I think Morwen's post is fine. I understand why you might read it the way you read it, but I think you are immediately going to the most negative possible interpretation.

Lasa too went to the most negative interpretation, apparently, I assume, then ?

[Ember Vykos]

I am going to be horrible for a moment.

While it is not heavily trafficked, you are welcome to invite someone to have a "no-rules"* discussion on what they are doing in Eve at Chatsubo.

*Please follow the scant rules that are there like no porn, spam, or actually illegal posts.

I would (and have in the past, and continue to) recommend this, for people who feel the rules here are too restrictive. Chatsubo doesn't have a YDIW rule. You're still a mod there, right?

Wouldn't it be easier to make a place for such discussions here? I say this because chatsubo is practically dead, but still a really great resource.

[Morwen Lagann]

I'm no mind-reader, but I suspect that Silver's response to the suggestion that we make a subforum where all of the rules that were put in place specifically to make this place NOT like Chatsubo are ignored is going to be a flat, resounding, no.

[Lyn Farel]

That would be quite insane to have one forums were flamewars are raging and just on the same forum all the rest supposed to stay clean...

It's going to spread. Considering how people seem unable to restrain themselves already... no ?

[Jekaterine]

I am going to be horrible for a moment.

While it is not heavily trafficked, you are welcome to invite someone to have a "no-rules"* discussion on what they are doing in Eve at Chatsubo.

*Please follow the scant rules that are there like no porn, spam, or actually illegal posts.

I would (and have in the past, and continue to) recommend this, for people who feel the rules here are too restrictive. Chatsubo doesn't have a YDIW rule. You're still a mod there, right?

Wouldn't it be easier to make a place for such discussions here? I say this because chatsubo is practically dead, but still a really great resource.

There's a reason even Chatsubo closed down its "Bitching section" where it was a free for all.
Didn't work there and won't work here.
As for mods there I'm still one and I visit regularly to houseclean the place from Bots and wander the empty halls.

[Ember Vykos]

I doubt we would ever get something with no rules, but less rules where we could talk and be a bit blunt without worrying about someone crying about their feelings getting hurt would be kinda cool. v0v

[Lyn Farel]

I don't think I would like it, personally.

If we start with sections with different rules, it's going to become a damn mess quite fast. People will start to ask other sections with their own set of rules since someone got his own here and complain that it's unfair that some can and some cannot.

[Ember Vykos]

I don't think I would like it, personally.

If we start with sections with different rules, it's going to become a damn mess quite fast. People will start to ask other sections with their own set of rules since someone got his own here and complain that it's unfair that some can and some cannot.

It's not the Ember subforum, it's just a subforum that I think could be warranted or perhaps maybe even wanted by some. ( I dont think I'm the first person to suggest this.)

[Silver Night]

I don't think I would like it, personally.

If we start with sections with different rules, it's going to become a damn mess quite fast. People will start to ask other sections with their own set of rules since someone got his own here and complain that it's unfair that some can and some cannot.

It's not the Ember subforum, it's just a subforum that I think could be warranted or perhaps maybe even wanted by some. ( I dont think I'm the first person to suggest this.)

You aren't - I think there is a thread in the website features section about it. Morwen is correct though, it is something that has been looked at in the past, but the judgement has been that it would undermine the who atmosphere we go for here.

[Jekaterine]

I don't think I would like it, personally.

If we start with sections with different rules, it's going to become a damn mess quite fast. People will start to ask other sections with their own set of rules since someone got his own here and complain that it's unfair that some can and some cannot.

It's not the Ember subforum, it's just a subforum that I think could be warranted or perhaps maybe even wanted by some. ( I dont think I'm the first person to suggest this.)

You're not the first and you won't be the last.
The stance, as far as I can tell, is that it won't happen.
There is a ready made solution though in The Chatsubo. There are existing mods. The infrastructure exists and the ruleset is laxer.

Looking back on how this place was created it was in similar circumstances:
A few people were not happy with how things were and then started Backstage. This was in response to a general feeling of a need for enforced civility through rules.
In this case where there are people wanting a forum where you can be brasher.
It exists. All it needs is people posting.
Sure it'll mean you have to check two places.
Sure it'll mean fewer users, at least in the beginning, or for the duration depending on what people want.
Why is this a problem? For my various gaming needs I often go to several places to check for information or input. I am part of several communities which in some cases overlap. I can't possibly be alone in this.
It is not a competition nor a divisive split. It is merely two places were you can express yourself in different ways. Just as this is an addition so would posting on Chatsubo be.

Why not accept the differences and adapt to them instead of trying to change this place to something it isn't and doesn't need to be as there is an alternative?

This isn't solely aimed at you Ember but for all those that have expressed views wanting a laxer ruleset.
I'm just curious as to why people won't use Chatsubo. Is the only reason "But no one posts there"?
Then that would be easily remedied by posting there and have interesting enough debates and discussions to have others join in.
What are people afraid of?

[Anslol]

I know I don't have much of a say in this and it's probably hypocritical to even say this in the first place in some way I don't realize yet, but I feel this needs to be said.

We have a tight community despite our differences, flaws, sins, and life outlooks. We make enemies ICly as much as we make friends. We build alliances and break them. We trust and get back stabbed. But this all happens IC. For the most part, we are rather tight and civil with each other OOCly. This is what drew me to and keeps me in this community and Eve as a whole.

I know when I started I was derpy, but since then I have learned. The only reason I came back to Eve was because of you all and because things were not only kept interesting, but high quality. There wasn't a massive amount of cold shouldering or unnecessary exclusion. The community grew, became constructive, and really attractive. So I came back, and I'm happy.

But since that time, I have noticed a steady stream of discontent, vitriol, and in some cases outright animosity over more trivial things. Yes to some they may seem like 'a big deal' whether it be someone 'doing it wrong' or feeling their faction has been given the short straw, but step back a minute. Take a good step back and look at the situation.

Is arguing over one thing again and again and again and attacking people in this community really worth hurting a friend? Hurting an ally? Not IC but OOC.

I like to think that, OOC, we're all pretty tight. ICly Silas and Anslo hate each other, but I love Silas OOC for giving me that little spat of hate. It's fun. I haven't had this much fun or felt this close to a community in years of playing Eve. It's the equivalent of some smaller pvp corps of friends from years and years of knowing each other. Sure we don't always agree, but hey whatever.

But is constantly arguing and telling one of those friends 'you're doing it wrong' because they don't act like you think they should despite remaining within a certain boundary of action that isn't offensive worth hammering again and again? This brings me to my point.

Why does this keep happening? Why does the same YDIW crap and insults and demeaning keep happening? Why are we doing this to one of the few communities left that's actually really fun and lulzy? Constructive criticism is all well and good and it helps to better RP. Anslo's story is all the better for the CONSTRUCTIVE feedback he's gotten as well as the help in tweaking bits here and there.

That didn't happen from insults, that didn't happen from demeaning the idea, that didn't happen from saying trash the idea it's rubbish. It happened from people enjoying the same thing in the same game wanting to better the community and the lore for everyone to have a good time despite the potential derp because that same derp is what can create interesting stories that stick with people for a hell of a long time with a little tweaking.

But no, we keep on with this YDIW, we keep on cutting and gashing and hammering at others for small transgressions because we feel they're ruining the community, when in reality they're acting in an innocuous manner. Sure we have some exceptions where someone tries to stick a Sleeper in them and say they're the King of New Eden...that just isn't going to happen....yet anyway. Boy that'd be weird.

But we do it. And it irks people to no end. The last thing I want to see is a community, a great one, torn apart because people argued about who was friends with who. Yes it's Eve, yes the HTFU is always there, but I'm personally fucking sick of human nature being used as an excuse to HTFU when something like this pops up. I'm sick of people saying if you don't like it, find another game or RP circle. I'm sick of people using Eve's harshness to justify continued vitriolic and venomous rhetoric against people who are friendly, creative, and some of the best friends I've had in a long time. I'm sick of people tearing and ruining things because they don't get their way instead of taking their own advice and HTFUing instead of messing with others for the tiniest reasons.So to those who might do that I say this.

Get the flying fuck over yourselves. I'm sorry to say it, but I don't want to see the RP community turn into some ultra dramatic shit show that ends in everyone just sodding off. Drama will happen yes, but it can be mitigated to only IC with some OOC. We're adults. We're intelligent. We're civilized. Fucking act like it before this continued, angry, and unnecessary passive aggressive (and sometimes aggressive) activities ruin the one last fucking good thing in Eve that drives stories forwards and sparks creativity in people willing to jump into it.

Call me soft, tell me to HTFU, tell me whatever you want but I am sick of it and I'm saying this here and now. Block me, bounty me, do whatever you want. But the vitriol and ydiw and aggressive posturing against OOC, Summit, and everything else needs to stop if we want to see an already flourishing RP community grow.

Get the fuck over yourselves and be civil. Have fun with people instead of holding grudges.

FUCK.

[Victoria Stecker]

+1 to anslol, although, to take a slightly different view: Backstage is a large part of why we have a semi-meaningful RP community. Seriously. The enforced civility allows discussions which make it possible to realize that the player behind the character you hate isn’t quite as much of a shithead as you thought. EVE is a game that makes keeping IC and OOC separate really hard – and the fact that it’s actually possible to lose an IC conflict means the stakes are a lot higher. Even with backstage, we still have some rather deep divisions and a lot of mutual personal distaste, but from where I sit it looks like it’s much less than it’s been in the past.

The rules on this forum don’t really stop you from expressing an opinion; they simply require you to express it in a way that doesn’t pass judgment on people who disagree with you. What ‘community’ we have exists because we’ve been forced to rephrase our disagreements in ways that aren’t insulting and suddenly discovered that we don’t actually have to hate each other’s guts.

For many of us, this has worked really well. For some people, it hasn’t.