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[Lyn Farel]

As far as I know, and since I am far from being a very active players these days, I have not heard about any "minor" faction developpement.

It makes me a little sad too since I see all the rage from some of the people actually getting CCP's attention, while the most damaged (or not enough damaged) factions are probably these two ones.

They both share similar positions in the Empire in terms of power, territory, and social position : both of them being the two most successful cases of Reclaiming, one with an old but tainted name, and the other one quite young and has yet to build its prestige) . They also both share by contrast a blind willingness to be part of the Empire for one, and a very rebellious and proud behavior for the other one, caring a lot of for its independence.

The Khanid Kingdom and the Ammatar Mandate are two polar opposites in terms of image however. While the Ammatar have been pictured over time like the brainless, witless sheeps they seem to be, with a crumbling economy, mediocre schools and not a lot of other redeeming virtues besides their somehow unshakable faith, the Khanid Kingdom have always been pictured as proud and independant, and have rarely seen any defeat or bad stain on their image. They actually look "cool", with nice looking missile ships that everyone love, with cyberknights and all that fancy fluff.

So, I could speak a lot more about it in details, but I think overall that you get the idea : I have rarely seen a faction more shitty than the Ammatar, and at the contrary, so cool that Khanid uberales. I feel that it damages their respective RP. Yes, even the Khanid. The Khanid may be the pragmatic slaver bastards that they are, their history overall is filled with success and awesomeness.  It unfortunately does not bring a lot of RP drama or material, the same way that a pitiful brainless faction as the Ammatar with not much redeeming features can not seriously bring any deep RP material. Eventually it's a matter of being too white or too dark here in the portrayal.

In any case, I would really like to see a little more care brought up for those factions. We have an interesting duality where the Khanid and the Ammatar are being pushed in the arms of the Empire, for different reasons, but both political. We could learn a lot about them in the process and creating internal conflict where I actually want to see some Ammatars that wish for more independance or a better position. The Ardishapur taking care of everything and making the Ammatar an even more spineless faction is the worst thing that has happened to that faction in my opinion. It only serves to hamper their developement even more, unless, of course (and that's the whole point), they start to actually revolt a little against that. I would like to see more Ammatar slave owners used to their extensive rights and privileges actually plotting and doing :politics: to act against the rise of Ardishapur. I would like to see them backed up secretly (or not) by Ardishapur natural enemies, like Kor-Azor or Tash-Murkon. Especially TM since there is a lot of trade and investment opportunities in the Mandate to be battled with the Caldari megas already here (yes as you can guess, the Ammatar are so witless that they give to the Caldari half of the profit of their soil).

As for the Khanid... Well, I haven't thought so much about it, and it is more delicate since they could need a little more hardship to my eyes...

[Vikarion]

Given the attention they would be likely to receive, based on the attention they have already received, the Khanid Kingdom, and especially the Ammatar Mandate, are probably better off not being noticed by CCP. They had a much larger representation before TEA, but the Elder invasion, Nefantar betrayal of the Empire, and the near-absorption of the kingdom by the empire has rather quashed most of the RP connected to those entities. Silas used to be running the last major Khanid organization, but I don't believe I've seen one since.

However, there's nothing stopping anyone from starting something new, and for Caldari RPers looking for somewhere to transition to, the Kingdom is a great choice. The Ammatar mandate is a bit tougher to break into, as it does seem somewhat insular and composed largely of Minmatar.

[Saede Riordan]

The Ammatar were sort of loosely connected to the last RP arc in the Republic, with the Nefantar tribe delegate and the whole 'no one trusts an Ammatar" thing that MURI started. Though an RP arc centring on them? They haven't even finished with all the Big4 yet.

[Sepherim]

As Falcon once put it, he's de-Gonzalezing EVE, so I imagine he'll get with the little ones when the big ones are more or less sorted.

[Lyn Farel]

That's my point. Why waiting ? There are plenty of opportunities to link their De-Gonzaleification to what happens elsewhere. It would be so much better to have everyone react at least a bit to big events like the one of yersterday.

I would like to get out of the usual, traditional Gallente/Caldari plot and Amarr/Minmatar plot. It's simplistic at best. Minor factions are the best lore leverages in existence to actually create conflict and ripples across the whole New Eden (think Intaki).

I am not saying that it is not already planned of course (and I hope it is). I just wanted to voice my concerns about factions that could be inserted easily in the major plotlines. But no, we just are condemned to watch like sidekicks.

[Karmilla Strife]

I imagine it has more to do with the demand placed on the storyline team by their event timetable, and demand from factions with more numerous supporters. Have you written to the faction contacts? I imagine that if they had more player interest expressed, they'd eventually do something.

[Lyn Farel]

Yes I have.

It is just that I do not understand why not including them. It requires nothing more, and even if there is not much loyalists for these, where is the problem ? I only see benefits : more people eventually interested in them, more variation in lore and events...

[Morwen Lagann]

It requires a lot more.

People. Time. Effort. Writing the events. Planning them. Getting people hyped up. Running the events. Figuring out aftermath, running more events.

The events team isn't very big.

[Lyn Farel]

I do not see why.

Either you do a storyarc about the gallente vs the caldari for CP, either you do a storyarc involving a few minor factions and other factions.

That remains a storyarc, not multiple storyarcs.

Of course though, I think that the CP storyline was necessary in some way or another, and including minor factions here does not make much sense.

[Karmilla Strife]

Going by the faction contact list, there are eighteen factions that they could be doing story arcs for. In addition they have four faction warfare agents and I could see them doing FW events separate from the main story for each of the big 4. CCP's story team doesn't have the resources to do something for every faction at the same time. If the went through them in a fixed order, even at one event a week, it would be months between any individual faction's turn in the spotlight.

I believe there have already been events and news items involving both Khanid and Ammatar. I think there was something where the Sani Sabik were fighting the Khanid. I think that failed to escalate due to lack of Khanid/Amarrian opposition. There was the EM/Republic freedom raid in Derelik, which I believe was planned as a smaller event and not really part of a story. Also I don't know how much of the Ardishapur education reforms arc involves the Mandate.

[Publius Valerius]

The Khanid Kingdom and the Ammatar Mandate are two polar opposites in terms of image however. While the Ammatar have been pictured over time like the brainless, witless sheeps they seem to be, with a crumbling economy, mediocre schools and not a lot of other redeeming virtues besides their somehow unshakable faith, the Khanid Kingdom have always been pictured as proud and independant, and have rarely seen any defeat or bad stain on their image. They actually look "cool", with nice looking missile ships that everyone love, with cyberknights and all that fancy fluff.
i megas already here (yes as you can guess, the Ammatar are so witless that they give to the Caldari half of the profit of their soil).

I can just say: The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. What I try to say with it? That not everything is sunny in the Kingdom. There is slavery for other reasons as in the empire, without admitting to it (that it is out of other reasons then: Enlightenment, Character development, finding god etc....). The whole Modernization vs Tradition conflict, as well as is it really modernization? Or is it pragmatism, realism instead of modernization which is the driving force?

The Khanid Kingdom and the Ammatar Mandate are two polar opposites in terms of image however. While the Ammatar have been pictured over time like the brainless, witless sheeps they seem to be, with a crumbling economy, mediocre schools and not a lot of other redeeming virtues besides their somehow unshakable faith, the Khanid Kingdom have always been pictured as proud and independant, and have rarely seen any defeat or bad stain on their image. They actually look "cool", with nice looking missile ships that everyone love, with cyberknights and all that fancy fluff.

About the schools. I have wrote ones a article on the wiki about it: Ammatar Consular University (look page history). So they arent as stupid or at least I have try to make them less stupid.

About independent. It isnt independent. See Eterens and Cauls comment on this question. It was independent in the past, but isnt now. Point. Still havent seen a "none-Tonyish scenario" which explains this, form both s******, but since Eterne never changed his opinion or his histroy page. I think it is save to say, or sure to say; that it is a vassal and subordinate to Jamyl. So, the Kingdom is not really uber, "cool" or even LOGICAL. It is save to say, that the Eternes and Cauls version of the Kingdom is the most unrealistic thing which CCP has ever brought forward. It is so Tony-ish I even dont know were to start  . And what tops everything is/are the moronic answers of them....I think I can falsify any if their points they would never change their mind..... But Im off topic now.... I get to angry again about both m*****.

As Falcon once put it, he's de-Gonzalezing EVE, so I imagine he'll get with the little ones when the big ones are more or less sorted.

Better lets hope not.

[orange]

2009 Khanid-Caldari arc.

[Lyn Farel]

Going by the faction contact list, there are eighteen factions that they could be doing story arcs for. In addition they have four faction warfare agents and I could see them doing FW events separate from the main story for each of the big 4. CCP's story team doesn't have the resources to do something for every faction at the same time. If the went through them in a fixed order, even at one event a week, it would be months between any individual faction's turn in the spotlight.

I believe there have already been events and news items involving both Khanid and Ammatar. I think there was something where the Sani Sabik were fighting the Khanid. I think that failed to escalate due to lack of Khanid/Amarrian opposition. There was the EM/Republic freedom raid in Derelik, which I believe was planned as a smaller event and not really part of a story. Also I don't know how much of the Ardishapur education reforms arc involves the Mandate.

I never said that they always have to include ALL factions in every storyarc. But more of them, and not forgetting the minor factions every time was all I was asking. I was also merely trying to suggest and call for interesting ideas revolving around these factions. The only answers I get is either "don't expect anything coming from CCP" or "CCP do not have the time to devote to minor factions".

Sani Sabik fighting the Khanid, that's good, but that's... basic. Very basic. And again, a one on one.

EM raid in Derelik was one sided, but interesting though. However it only served to underline how useless the Mandate is.

[Lyn Farel]

The Khanid Kingdom and the Ammatar Mandate are two polar opposites in terms of image however. While the Ammatar have been pictured over time like the brainless, witless sheeps they seem to be, with a crumbling economy, mediocre schools and not a lot of other redeeming virtues besides their somehow unshakable faith, the Khanid Kingdom have always been pictured as proud and independant, and have rarely seen any defeat or bad stain on their image. They actually look "cool", with nice looking missile ships that everyone love, with cyberknights and all that fancy fluff.
i megas already here (yes as you can guess, the Ammatar are so witless that they give to the Caldari half of the profit of their soil).

I can just say: The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. What I try to say with it? That not everything is sunny in the Kingdom. There is slavery for other reasons as in the empire, without admitting to it (that it is out of other reasons then: Enlightenment, Character development, finding god etc....). The whole Modernization vs Tradition conflict, as well as is it really modernization? Or is it pragmatism, realism instead of modernization which is the driving force?

Werll, that's the kind of ideas I was hoping to see. It could be good in bolstering Khanid RP and lore and current situation.

The Khanid Kingdom and the Ammatar Mandate are two polar opposites in terms of image however. While the Ammatar have been pictured over time like the brainless, witless sheeps they seem to be, with a crumbling economy, mediocre schools and not a lot of other redeeming virtues besides their somehow unshakable faith, the Khanid Kingdom have always been pictured as proud and independant, and have rarely seen any defeat or bad stain on their image. They actually look "cool", with nice looking missile ships that everyone love, with cyberknights and all that fancy fluff.

About the schools. I have wrote ones a article on the wiki about it: Ammatar Consular University (look page history). So they arent as stupid or at least I have try to make them less stupid.

About independent. It isnt independent. See Eterens and Cauls comment on this question. It was independent in the past, but isnt now. Point. Still havent seen a "none-Tonyish scenario" which explains this, form both s******, but since Eterne never changed his opinion or his histroy page. I think it is save to say, or sure to say; that it is a vassal and subordinate to Jamyl. So, the Kingdom is not really uber, "cool" or even LOGICAL. It is save to say, that the Eternes and Cauls version of the Kingdom is the most unrealistic thing which CCP has ever brought forward. It is so Tony-ish I even dont know were to start  . And what tops everything is/are the moronic answers of them....I think I can falsify any if their points they would never change their mind..... But Im off topic now.... I get to angry again about both m*****.[/quote]

Your article on schools seems empty... But anyway, that's your article, not PF. I was merely mentioning PF.

By independent, also, I meant in spirit, not in form. It was to emphasize on the contrast between the Khanid and the Ammatar.

[Karmilla Strife]

You've misunderstood what I said.