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[ArtOfLight]

I 100% agree with you Aelisha. I wish people wouldn't walk away feeling sore and irrelevant and I'm hoping (possibly in vain) that something has been worked out to prevent that feeling.

No matter which side wins the conflict (though I am personally cheering for the Caldari because delicious, delicious tension and RP) I just hope that somehow it's worked out that both sides enjoy the event itself.

[Lyn Farel]

I prefered when everything was railroaded without making us believe that we matter.

Of course though, all I see here is a lot of speculation and hot air and I do not see honestly why people are being so incendiary before anything actually happens. Just wait for after and whine about it at the proper time with the proper, legitimate reasons (or non legit ones, for that matters anyway...).

Also, like Cael, I do not see why I should even agree or empathize when people whine about their faction that way, when they were perfectly happy to play with it when it turned to their advantage when the other side got smashed repeadtedly.

I have the feeling to read a discussion between pots and kettles.

[Desiderya]

Pointing out that game mechanics (FW, Standings, High-Sec) make this situation more than a mere 'logistical problem' is hardly whining.
But maybe I am misunderstanding your point here and you should elaborate who exactly you mean with using game mechanics to repeatedly smash the opposition while telling them to HTFU.
Because from my point of view, for someone complaining about pots and kettles, you make a pretty good cookware juggler yourself.

[Caellach Marellus]

Pointing out that game mechanics (FW, Standings, High-Sec) make this situation more than a mere 'logistical problem' is hardly whining.
But maybe I am misunderstanding your point here and you should elaborate who exactly you mean with using game mechanics to repeatedly smash the opposition while telling them to HTFU.
Because from my point of view, for someone complaining about pots and kettles, you make a pretty good cookware juggler yourself.

I think Lyn was hinting out at the people who lorded over when the Caldari retook CP through railroad plot mechanics, some of them are now the most bitter of complainers because they aren't getting a storyline situation lined up in their favour.

Also I think you're overstating how much of a logistical issue it is to get people and ships in. Gabriel mentioned it here, I've had chats with Rodj where he told me about how the Amarr Mil use to jump into Minmatar highsec and gank people using baitships to hold off the police etc. You have to handle an issue the other side does not sure, but it's not an impossible feat, nor something that hasn't been done before.

But hey, least you've got a Titan.

[Desiderya]

That's why I put it logistical problem in quotes in the first place. The problem isn't a logistical nature - and what worked two years ago is of no help since there was most notably the AI change that makes speed tanking NPCs so that others have free reign impossible. We should also keep in mind that we're not talking about ganking people but most likely are looking at a lot of confusion, staying on the field and a larger engagement size and duration than 10 vs 1.

I'm merely attacking the notion of discarding these concerns as baseless whining about minor issues. But suit yourself.

[Ciarente]

[mod]Thread cleaned and unlocked. [/mod]

[Vikarion]

Pointing out that game mechanics (FW, Standings, High-Sec) make this situation more than a mere 'logistical problem' is hardly whining.
But maybe I am misunderstanding your point here and you should elaborate who exactly you mean with using game mechanics to repeatedly smash the opposition while telling them to HTFU.
Because from my point of view, for someone complaining about pots and kettles, you make a pretty good cookware juggler yourself.

I think Lyn was hinting out at the people who lorded over when the Caldari retook CP through railroad plot mechanics, some of them are now the most bitter of complainers because they aren't getting a storyline situation lined up in their favour.

Also I think you're overstating how much of a logistical issue it is to get people and ships in. Gabriel mentioned it here, I've had chats with Rodj where he told me about how the Amarr Mil use to jump into Minmatar highsec and gank people using baitships to hold off the police etc. You have to handle an issue the other side does not sure, but it's not an impossible feat, nor something that hasn't been done before.

But hey, least you've got a Titan.

I think the point has already been made that Caldari RPers didn't, as a general rule, want anything that happened in TEA. To claim that TEA was some great reward for us that we didn't work for, and that we're now getting our just desserts, is to completely ignore everything almost every Caldari RPer has been saying for the last several years.

Getting Caldari Prime was something we had to defend. What were we gonna say "oh, hey, take it back, we don't care"? But at least we had that, when we'd lost everything we liked about the State, lost the one hero character we had (even if he was a Marty Stu and needed killing), and had been crammed into the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor/Nazis in space boxes.

I've already written lists of the ways that the Fed has been favored over the State. The most argument I get is typically one of interpretation "well, actually, it makes the Caldari look good when the Federation completely destroys their Black Rise colonies". Yeah, ok. CCP has been running Eve as a Space Opera for the Gallente and Minmatar for years, so I shall be somewhat skeptical of the claim that Gallente players "deserve" to have the playing field arranged in their favor because they didn't get to have a choice about the titan. Well, we didn't get to have a choice about losing in FW lore whether we won or lost in the game, we didn't get to have a choice about Heth, we didn't get to have a choice about CCP running a large storyline to make the Caldari faction anathema to Dusties, etc etc.

And while asserting that CCP might be biased is apparently now moderated, I would agree with that perspective.

[K_Wiroshoda]

I always thought the Caldari were the Mascot of EVE.

I do not think it is possible to proscribe "facts" in these cases. So much of it is down to personal interpretation, where both sides can be valid.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Let's be fair, no one particularly came out of TEA particularly happy. In my review I said that the Gallente got the shittiest end of the stick because they were portrayed almost universally as weak, incompetent dupes. This isn't about "who wins." It's about how these live events are going to end up being extremely unsatisfying to everyone.

[Vikarion]

Let's be fair, no one particularly came out of TEA particularly happy. In my review I said that the Gallente got the shittiest end of the stick because they were portrayed almost universally as weak, incompetent dupes. This isn't about "who wins." It's about how these live events are going to end up being extremely unsatisfying to everyone.

Yeah, I disagree with that interpretation of TEA. And, frankly, when your opponents are Space Nazis and the Empire of Enslaving Child Molesters, I don't think that looking somewhat incompetent is very bad at all. To wit: "Hey, yeah, Germany in WW2 was bad and all, but did you see France?"  Seriously, Gallente and Minmatar came out miles ahead in TEA.

[BloodBird]

What the pro-State block will have to do today and tomorrow before DT is exactly what the Pro-Fed block will have to do, only with one added item on their list;

1) Gather everyone who can attend, and get fleet-building going ASAP. You will need a doctrine, an FC or 3, a strategy and preparation to go attend.

2) The Pro-State band will have one extra item on your schedule - you will need to figure out the conditions you will get tomorrow. Testing the FW system and see how it works today and how you may get around it, if possible, and get in touch with Falcon for solid answers regarding the mechanics in play - to many 'maybe' and 'possibles' and to little 'this is how it works.'

3) Alternatively you chant "self-fulfilling prophecy" and don't bother to even try and attend. In this case the only thing I can guarantee is that those who don't show up won't be there for whatever happens.

It's not perfectly fair, but it never is anyhow. We deal with the cards we have received though, at least I will.

[Samira Kernher]

Let's be fair, no one particularly came out of TEA particularly happy. In my review I said that the Gallente got the shittiest end of the stick because they were portrayed almost universally as weak, incompetent dupes. This isn't about "who wins." It's about how these live events are going to end up being extremely unsatisfying to everyone.

Yeah, I disagree with that interpretation of TEA. And, frankly, when your opponents are Space Nazis and the Empire of Enslaving Child Molesters, I don't think that looking somewhat incompetent is very bad at all. To wit: "Hey, yeah, Germany in WW2 was bad and all, but did you see France?"  Seriously, Gallente and Minmatar came out miles ahead in TEA.

Okay, this is something that's been on the back of my mind for awhile, but...

What exactly is wrong with being a space nazi faction? I get that there was the whole retcon thing involved, so I know the main issue Caldari players have is that they rolled for A and got B instead after TEA. What I don't get is why people seem to say B is bad just for being B. If the Caldari had been space nazi's right from the start, if they had been designed from the ground up as it so that there was never any retcon involved, would you still be upset at them being space nazi's?

Is there something that mandates being good guys (which I don't get, since in my opinion they were always the most dystopian nation even when they were still pre-Heth; that was what endeared me to them)? And for that matter, is there something that mandates space nazi's being bad guys?

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Okay, this is something that's been on the back of my mind for awhile, but...

What exactly is wrong with being a space nazi faction? I get that there was the whole retcon thing involved, so I know the main issue Caldari players have is that they rolled for A and got B instead after TEA. What I don't get is why people seem to say B is bad just for being B. If the Caldari had been space nazi's right from the start, if they had been designed from the ground up as it so that there was never any retcon involved, would you still be upset at them being space nazi's?

Is there something that mandates being good guys (which I don't get, since in my opinion they were always the most dystopian nation even when they were still pre-Heth; that was what endeared me to them)? And for that matter, is there something that mandates space nazi's being bad guys?

If they had been Space Nazis from the get-go, I wouldn't have given a damn. But then I probably wouldn't have given a damn about RP either, at least with the Caldari.

[ArtOfLight]

Really good questions from Samira, but I think that needs to be split to another discussion. It will derail this one.

[Ciarente]

Heth = The Caldari about as much as Franco= Spain.