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[Svetlana Scarlet]

The problem is, that Caldari society is based on merit only because of Heth. Before Heth, it was based on nepotism. Besides, from regular Caldari citizen's point of view, Heth made life better.
So, what exactly is this "greater good", that his "idiocy" destroys, eh?

That is incorrect. Caldari society was always supposed to be based on merit and the supremacy of the market. It didn't come from nowhere.

And the view of the "regular Caldari citizen" is irrelevant. The Caldari are not a democracy. The Caldari are a corporate plutocracy where the shareholders entrust the leadership of the corporations with the guidance of public policy; the State is demonstrably worse off now than it was ten years ago.

[K_Wiroshoda]

The Caldari are honorable, not obedient. These are the same people who fought a century long war of rebellion, killed their opponents within their own ranks (morning of reasoning) and even had a heritage in the Civire bloodline (IIRC) of "dissenters" - people who wanted to change facets of the State. The Caldari State is not Japan.

Duty and discipline are required traits in Caldari citizens, plus unquestioning loyalty to the corporation they live to serve.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Loyalty to the corporation, not the man in charge of it. Svetlana is fiercely loyal to the State and Ishukone, but she has criticized Heth, Gariushi, and Reppola not in spite of that loyalty, but because of it. Because the prosperity of her corporation and State are far more important than the egos of any one person.

[Vikarion]

Loyalty to the corporation, not the man in charge of it. Svetlana is fiercely loyal to the State and Ishukone, but she has criticized Heth, Gariushi, and Reppola not in spite of that loyalty, but because of it. Because the prosperity of her corporation and State are far more important than the egos of any one person.

This.

[Lithium Flower]

Almost all the Caldari PF had the Caldari State as a meritocracy. It wasn't until TonyG with TEA that we heard anything about nepotism being a major force in Caldari society. The disconnect between pre-TonyG PF and post-TEA pf in regards to Caldari life is so large it's like the faction was completely rethought.

Don't you think, that it is rather Tony's idiocy than Heth's? 

That's the dichotomy of being caldari, I guess....

Why should it be a dichotomy of being caldari, but not just different peoples in Caldari society, eh?
Maybe it's just me talking about honorable peoples, whom no alive left... (because they all killed themselves) 

[Kyoko Sakoda]

This thread and the spin-off thread... 

[Lithium Flower]

And the view of the "regular Caldari citizen" is irrelevant. The Caldari are not a democracy. The Caldari are a corporate plutocracy where the shareholders entrust the leadership of the corporations with the guidance of public policy; the State is demonstrably worse off now than it was ten years ago.

Oh, I cannot agree with first part of it, unfortunately.
Because it is our characters, who are rather regular (or more like former regular) citizens, excluding selected few, who are like "former top commanders of blablabla mighties ceo blablabla first and prettiest wife of his maj... whatever". And it is their opinion we sound ICly. So it is should be relevant.

And I agree on second part, that the State is not democracy. We (or rather they) do not elect their leaders. They do not choose Heth. And they do not choose to be without Heth.

And I can't agree with last part, since this
http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=06-10-08
(Chronicle: Tomorrow A Dream)

Let me just cite it:

In the span since Heth’s inauguration, however, the turnaround in economic growth has been undeniable. Caldari have more money in their pockets. They are more secure about their retirement. People who under the old system would have found themselves forever excluded from certain positions now reside within those positions. The general feeling, on the streets and in the stations, is that for better or worse something great and grand is underway, that the previous system was ailing and outmoded, and that the New Meritocracy (as it has been dubbed by the press) is a return to form for a great nation shackled too long in the chains of favoritism. Averting their eyes from the darkness all around them, the Caldari people now for the first time in years set their sights on a brighter future.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

That was a month after Heth's "revolution". Change like that does not happen overnight, and there's been nothing to back that up. It's telling, not showing, everything we're shown is that things are in the shitter.

And no one chose Heth, that's exactly right. Which is what makes no fucking sense because the whole idea of the State is that power is decentralized so that one person cannot do exactly what Heth did through his magic mind control powers...and I'm getting angry enough to rip my hair out and throw this computer through my 11th floor window, so I'm going to stop going over the same ground I've gone over ten times before.

[Demion Samenel]

That was a month after Heth's "revolution". Change like that does not happen overnight, and there's been nothing to back that up. It's telling, not showing, everything we're shown is that things are in the shitter.

And no one chose Heth, that's exactly right. Which is what makes no fucking sense because the whole idea of the State is that power is decentralized so that one person cannot do exactly what Heth did through his magic mind control powers...and I'm getting angry enough to rip my hair out and throw this computer through my 11th floor window, so I'm going to stop going over the same ground I've gone over ten times before.

Oh Captain my captain, not your PVP winning I hope! 

[Svetlana Scarlet]

No, my work laptop.

[Lithium Flower]

There's no really reason to go nuts because of this.
I have a simple but working idea behind this: take what they give and use it for my benefit 
It is really easy to stay loyal to State and Heth together. The idea behind decentralized power allows the State to grow stronger by constantly improving itself in unending conflicts. But when there is an external enemy, decentralized power will lead to defeat and destruction of the State. What strength was accumulated with decentralized power, can be unleashed and applied properly only with centralized power. This is a question of life and death to the State. If a thing cant evolve, it dies, like it happened to Raata empire. You have to react to what is happening outside of the State and not lock on internal State problems.

And Heth... it's not just him, it's the whole board of CEOs after him. This makes me think, that all CEOs wanted the war to happen. So it isn't "idiocy" of just Heth, but rather of whole board of CEOs. Of the whole Caldari society.

Just imagine a bit of caldari enterpreneur warmongering mindset: why we are fighting between ourselves, when we can fight someone else, someone who is outside, and who holds something that belongs to us?

Add to this a character who had a grave grudge against gallente before Heth, and you will get a loyal soldier, who will gladly give her life to protect Heth 
(oh, and almost forgot: our characters don't read TonyG  )

[hellgremlin]

Hey guys, here's a fun thought.

What if the new boss is worse than the old boss? :p

[Svetlana Scarlet]

The problem is that there is no reason to be loyal to Heth, neither IC or OOC. OOC, the guy came out of nowhere, stomped on a bunch of canon upon which the Caldari RP community had built their roleplaying on for years, and generally contradicted everything we'd been told about the State since the game began, purely to start a war in a way that didn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

IC, Heth came to power in a way that did not seem to have any merit, and his entire regime seems to make him personally look weak; he's always been dependent on people like Oiritsuu or...the other guy that led the CPD and was assassinated I can't remember his name, and it's obvious he didn't get his position based on his own wealth, so that gives a reason for people to be suspicious of who is really behind his ascent. He risked the safety of the entire State for the sake of grabbing Caldari Prime, something that had been established as something only the most extreme Patriots even cared about anymore. He's stomped on the sovereign rights of the corporate powers.

I agree that it makes no sense that the CEOs supported him if they didn't want war, so they must have wanted the war...except that everything we were told until Heth took power is that none of them were interested in war, even the Patriots, and that's yet another reason them handing their power over to him is baffling. There is a reason why Svetlana has called them out for perpetuating this nonsense.

You also keep pushing this line that the Caldari seem to want to fight someone...this was not what the fiction pushed up until TEA; the Caldari were more afraid of being invaded by someone else than interested in starting wars; they skirmished among each other, but they had established institutions -- the CBT and CEP -- specifically to prevent the outbreak of an all-out corporate war. And war is an extremely expensive prospect when you have to pay for it, which the Caldari megacorporations would surely understand.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Hey guys, here's a fun thought.

What if the new boss is worse than the old boss? :p

Seriously, why the **** does this keep coming up. Why is it so difficult for people to accept the fact that the Caldari State does not and should not need a singular head of state?! Why do people even keep suggesting this?

If CCP simply replaces Heth with somebody else, then Falcon's work in revitalizing the scene will have been for next to nothing. I seriously doubt he's dumb enough to go against the long popular sentiment that Heth is an aberration in Caldari society and the whole concept of him needs to be trashed.

I believe in CCP Falcon, because before he was Falcon, he was my friend. He understood my concerns, and he agreed with them. He was one of us, a regular player, not so long ago. I can trust nobody else in CCP more than Falcon to not just give us another dictator trope.

Bittervets who love to hate CCP can take that bolded paragraph and learn it well... because I doubt Falcon will make me eat those words.

[Vikarion]

Friends fall away, lovers betray, but CCP screwing the RPers is forever.