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[Davlos]

Also the term is generally tossed about often when a 'new' female character shows up, is extremely sexual from the start, is a lesbian, and generally doesn't have much else going on beyond cruising for love in the chats, etc etc.

Yes. ._.

[Samira Kernher]

For me personally, it's about it being cliche. EVE is not the only game where this happens. I've RPed in SWG, WoW, and other MMOs, and it almost always is a fact of life that lesbian characters will outnumber their straight counterparts. Though EVE does seem to take this to an extreme level.

Personally, I don't really mind serious lesbian characters, nor do I mind it when the players behind said characters are actually female IRL. Usually the only time I have a problem with it is for male players of female characters, and only because it's such a common thing that often indicates that they are unable to distance themselves from their RL sexuality--thus failing to maintain the IC/OOC divide. All that said, I personally never refuse to RP with such characters, nor do I really consider them to be bad characters for it, and I don't hold it against the players involved (afterall, my BF typically roleplays lesbian characters), it just bothers me for it to be so common no matter where you go.

[Khloe]

I think there's a huge gap in usage of "space lesbian", between those who describe a problem from those who poke fun at them. If the implication that any use of the term is disparaging to homosexuals, feel free to keep in mind that words don't have any meaning unless you give them value.

Why males playing female characters make other male players so uncomfortable would be a topic in itself, and I'd have plenty to say on the subject. There are plethora of people in here already trying to justify why they think it's okay to tell other players 'you're doing it wrong' because there are way too many lesbians in New Eden. Consider the 495,000 other players are probably straight as an arrow, it might be you who accidentally stumbled into the gay bar.

At any rate, until one of you starts paying for my subscription, I'll continue playing how I want even if it bothers you~

[Nicoletta Mithra]

My reading of the OP is that it is not an assertion that people use the term because they wish to be offensive, but rather a suggestion that we all think about our use of the phrase and the unintended baggage it can bring with it.

I also suggest that discussions of homosexuality in Eve cultures belong in their own thread.

+1

also, *licks Mercy*

[ArtOfLight]

I've actually never used the term "space lesbian" because people are people and people will be people.

Personally, I sometimes find the sheer amount of female/female relationships a bit overwhelming but that's just the way RP goes. I've never really let it bother me.

[Davlos]

At least there isn't a massive proliferation of futas.

*shudder*

[Mitara Newelle]

And a lot of the time, 'space bi' would probably be more accurate anyway. Need more men who aren't total assholes

Really? Really? Really.
"Need more women who aren't total bitches."
Sadly srs. Since when men being "assholes" causes lesbians? This almost demands someone to IC roll up a nice guy and go "Yeah I like women more, a lot more, but hey there ain't nice enough girls around so I had to go gay." (I just don't think thats how sexual preferences work.)

Relax, it was just a joke. A long running OOC joke among players who choose to have a lesbian characters is that "single" and "nice" seem to be mutually exclusive among men in eve. All the good ones seem to be taken (curse those women who got there first :l ).

* Mitara Newelle hides Aldy in her pocket, "Mine!"

[Matoko]

There is a reason one of my sayisms is, "MMORPG; Mostly Men Online Role Playing Girls."

On the topic at hand, like a lot of english, the phrase is entirely contextual. It depends on who's saying it, how they're saying it, and who they're saying it two. The word itself just sort of... Is. "Space lesbians", just as words, has no context or meaning beyond "females who are sexually attracted to females, in space".

Which is a long way of saying "be careful how you say things." Tone can make it a friendly nudge, or a snooty jab.

[kalaratiri]

And a lot of the time, 'space bi' would probably be more accurate anyway. Need more men who aren't total assholes

Really? Really? Really.
"Need more women who aren't total bitches."
Sadly srs. Since when men being "assholes" causes lesbians? This almost demands someone to IC roll up a nice guy and go "Yeah I like women more, a lot more, but hey there ain't nice enough girls around so I had to go gay." (I just don't think thats how sexual preferences work.)

Relax, it was just a joke. A long running OOC joke among players who choose to have a lesbian characters is that "single" and "nice" seem to be mutually exclusive among men in eve. All the good ones seem to be taken (curse those women who got there first :l ).

* Mitara Newelle hides Aldy in her pocket, "Mine!"

That was only slightly aimed at you Mitty All those nice young, spohisticated Amarrian and Caladri gentlemen who my poor Sebbie has no chance with 

There is a reason one of my sayisms is, "MMORPG; Mostly Men Online Role Playing Girls."

Interestingly while I am a male IRL, both of the players behind the characters Kala has been romantically involved with have been women. And apparently, I am good at roleplaying a girl, as people kept having to check >_>

[Sepherim]

I think more or less all good arguments have been said. So, just out of completion, I believe I'll fall into the cathegory of those who believe it's a cliché used to describe those that don't RP, and only badly RP their sexual fantasies. I have nothing against sexual fantasies being RPed, but lesbians and gays are people and have the appropriate depth of personality. It's like meeting an Amarrian that can only say things about the Scriptures, talk about reclaiming and all that in a shallow and empty way. Okay, they can walk that path, sure, but they're not really RPing a person; sometimes, this is due to the fact that there is a lot of lore to learn, and you can see that person evolve and give depth to the character, be him the amarrian extremist or the space lesbian. Then they leave that "bucket of empty RPers" and enter the world of "good RPers", even if they still play a zealot or a lesbian.

And yes, I know, I'm an elitist when it comes to RP. Then again, I do Rp with anyone, just enjoy more RPing with a full character than a cartoon with predefined answers to everything.

And I love the explanation Silas gave on straight males not wanting to ERP with males. Sounds pretty logical indeed.

On the topic at hand, like a lot of english, the phrase is entirely contextual. It depends on who's saying it, how they're saying it, and who they're saying it two. The word itself just sort of... Is. "Space lesbians", just as words, has no context or meaning beyond "females who are sexually attracted to females, in space".

Which is a long way of saying "be careful how you say things." Tone can make it a friendly nudge, or a snooty jab.

Indeed. But tha can be said about any language, not only english. It's very common in spanish to call everyone a "hijo de puta", which literally translates as "son of a bitch"; might be a sign of friendship if used among friends, of hatred, of envy, of admiration... it's mostly an empty expression actually, 100 % context based.

So, my previous words would apply to the common context. I actually think I never used "space lesbians" before.

That was only slightly aimed at you Mitty All those nice young, spohisticated Amarrian and Caladri gentlemen who my poor Sebbie has no chance with 

Yes, I know, no lady can reject us. xD

Actually, now that I think of it, neither Catillah nor old-Seph actually ever got involved with another character in this way. I have in other MMOs (like Age of Conan), but not in EVE. Curious. :?

[Lyn Farel]

On a more personnal experience, I have never really fallen into the lesbian characters especially. I have to add first that I don't care if male or female relationships for my female characters. On other MMOs I have RPed a male (one of my most successful characters atm) that became a women magnet. On Eve the few characters that seemed intersted in Lyn (I say seemed since that's my own interpretation, I have never really been sure except for two of them), they were all male.

Maybe, from that experience, just maybe, and it is only wild speculation here, that it actually shows and/or depends of the character and the player behind. I find it even weirder considering that I no strong proponent of heterosexual RP, or homosexual RP, and since my mentionned chars are not especially one sided on that matter as well.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

And I love the explanation Silas gave on straight males not wanting to ERP with males. Sounds pretty logical indeed.

In the same vein, it'd be 'logical' to assume that those people that make a fuss about 'space lesbians' have a problem with assertive, male-ish females that would pose a thread to them scoring or somesuch.

If you ERP a 'spacelesbian' you know that the person on the other side is probably male. If you play a male char in a relationship with a female, you prolly have the same situation. So, why does being straight male pose a problem to ERP with a male character, but not with a male player, portraying a female character?

Actually, now that I think of it, neither Catillah nor old-Seph actually ever got involved with another character in this way. I have in other MMOs (like Age of Conan), but not in EVE. Curious. :?

I can say so much: Nico thought that old-Seph was quite attractive. Then he vanished.

[Kyoko Sakoda]

I was going to post something about feminism, the Gaze, Linda Williams, etc... but I don't think I can take this thread seriously.

The truth is, the game needs more penis. </tourettes>

[Sepherim]

In the same vein, it'd be 'logical' to assume that those people that make a fuss about 'space lesbians' have a problem with assertive, male-ish females that would pose a thread to them scoring or somesuch.

If you ERP a 'spacelesbian' you know that the person on the other side is probably male. If you play a male char in a relationship with a female, you prolly have the same situation. So, why does being straight male pose a problem to ERP with a male character, but not with a male player, portraying a female character?

I think it has to do with fantasy more than reality. You see a female portrait, you can pretend there's a female player on the other side. It probably is wrong, but you can act upon it and convince yourself as if it is true.

Or, simply, ignore the person behind the screen and just focus on the character, which is female.

I can say so much: Nico thought that old-Seph was quite attractive. Then he vanished.

Yup, Ministry of Internal Order didn't like him meddling into certain things, and the corpses he had accumulated in his closet. Some were... politically sensible. But I'll tell him next time I get a Legio visit, I'm sure he'd like to know it in his monastery.

[Lyn Farel]

In the same vein, it'd be 'logical' to assume that those people that make a fuss about 'space lesbians' have a problem with assertive, male-ish females that would pose a thread to them scoring or somesuch.

If you ERP a 'spacelesbian' you know that the person on the other side is probably male. If you play a male char in a relationship with a female, you prolly have the same situation. So, why does being straight male pose a problem to ERP with a male character, but not with a male player, portraying a female character?

I think it has to do with fantasy more than reality. You see a female portrait, you can pretend there's a female player on the other side. It probably is wrong, but you can act upon it and convince yourself as if it is true.

Or, simply, ignore the person behind the screen and just focus on the character, which is female.

Devil's advocate : you can also focus on your character, which is female, then, if the other one is male.