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That the Eleutherian Guard, a capsuleer organisation, is a semi-independent paramilitary unit that answers to the Federal Security Council?

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Author Topic: Modded Isis post  (Read 8996 times)

Ciarente

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #30 on: 14 Feb 2013, 20:32 »

It's pretty simple. "I would do it X way, because ... "
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Silver Night > I feel like we should keep Cia in reserve. A little bit for Cia's sanity, but mostly because her putting on her mod hat is like calling in Rommel to deal with a paintball game.

Alizabeth

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #31 on: 14 Feb 2013, 20:41 »

It's pretty simple. "I would do it X way, because ... "

This is where my mouth gets me in trouble.  I complete that sentence in my head (you know the first thing that comes to mind): "because Im not retarded."   :D

I guess so, but there are some cases on gameplay (because mechanics are so much more concrete then lore) that a clear: "you have erred in your ways of ship fitting," is warranted.  Like a revelation whos low slots are allllllll heatsinks.  Every.  Last.  One.
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Ciarente

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #32 on: 14 Feb 2013, 20:42 »

And there are many other places to express such sentiments.
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Silver Night > I feel like we should keep Cia in reserve. A little bit for Cia's sanity, but mostly because her putting on her mod hat is like calling in Rommel to deal with a paintball game.

Vikarion

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #33 on: 14 Feb 2013, 23:52 »

Jektarine, you seem to be taking this personally. I'm not under the illusion that you acted in a vacuum.

Nor did I expressly question your intentions personally. I questioned whether the moderation team "we" was being too harsh on Isis because of Isis's involvement with the goons. In my second post, I clarified this, and you took it personally again. I did not even make a claim. I asked if we - as in, the board - have a bias against goons preemptively, as some do. In regards to the basis for this, I noted that one might quite reasonably have such a policy based on the public behavior of particular goons, and GSF in general.

Now, you've stated that you believe that the post could have been better without the portion which stimulated the moderation. Sure. But my point with Morwen wasn't to criticize Morwen (I agreed with Morwen) but to point out that other posters have stated things closer to an infraction of the rules than Isis's post. If we are to assume that Morwen's post, rather a more personal insult than Isis's, is not an infraction, then why is the very general and abstract post of Isis a violation of the rules? I don't know Isis, Isis has done nothing for me, it just seemed unfair.

I think some of your other statements are essentially a straw-man, so I'll simply give my view of the moderation team: I think that Cia, Morwen, and Silver Night are fairly busy individuals with lives of their own who nonetheless generously give time to moderate the boards. However, I also think that they are human, and can have biases and make mistakes. Or it's possible that they interpret the rules differently, and that's their prerogative. I haven't seen enough of Ghost Hunter to know much about him.

I posted because I thought that, under the rules and previous experience, Isis was getting moderated more strictly than others.

« Last Edit: 15 Feb 2013, 00:43 by Vikarion »
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Ciarente

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #34 on: 14 Feb 2013, 23:59 »

As if the case with almost all moderation action, multiple mods agreed before action was taken on the post.
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Silver Night > I feel like we should keep Cia in reserve. A little bit for Cia's sanity, but mostly because her putting on her mod hat is like calling in Rommel to deal with a paintball game.

Morwen Lagann

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #35 on: 15 Feb 2013, 00:40 »

Vik, I didn't look too closely at your second post (and, in fact, really have only referenced the OP regarding this thread), but I feel I need to correct you on something regarding the post of mine you linked to - I actually meant a more general audience beyond Bloodbird even though he was the primary intended target for that post - there were a LOT of people who were needing unnecessary hand-holding to figure out exactly what they did wrong, and at some point it does become unreasonable to expect us to continue to hold your hand and explain to you what you did wrong, over and over and over again, like you're a child.

As for the issue of wording, well, look at the description that Katrina provided. Isis posted "scrublord," not "scrub." The term "scrublord" could be used to refer to a very, very large number of EVE players by the provided definition. While the irony of one "scrublord" calling out another group of players as being just that is highly amusing (Goons have a pretty high concentration of them by that definition and they are hardly ashamed of it), it's still insulting and the term itself involves the "urdoinitrong" attitude. So we said "this is bad, you can repost if you fix it". We didn't need to say what was wrong with it, but Jek erred on the side of caution and did anyway.

(Technically, her changed post still has hints of urdoinitrong, given that everyone pays their $15/month and is therefore entitled to play the game how they wish within the limits of game mechanics and the EULA/TOS, but I'm not going to waste time on it.)

We don't necessarily have a bias against goons here (the mods don't collectively, and whether we like goons or not, we're not going to use it as a metric for moderation), but there's definitely what I would consider a bias against people who are proven troublemakers. You were gone from the game for a while so it's not too surprising that you missed some of the history and drama that got things to this point, but, to be my usual blunt self, a lot of people here don't like Isis or want to interact with her, and they have very good reasons not to (which I will not go into here); her membership in GSF is merely icing on the cake in comparison for these people. If anything is causing 'bias' against her here, it's her own actions both here on the forum and ingame.

Do note she's still posting, however. We're still going to do things by the book, which means that as long as she doesn't break the rules and cause us a headache, she gets to stay. Whether anyone else likes it or not. And before anyone suggests this is just for her, it's the same for anyone else. The only way anyone is going to be forcibly and permanently removed from these forums is repeated violations of the rules despite warnings and short-term bans.

Also, give Jek a break. We're aware he used to be (is) a mod on Chatsubo, and the various levels of festering drama-sores that involved. If we didn't think he was up to the task we wouldn't have offered him the job. And on the record, I can't remember a single moderation decision made on backstage that he disagreed with and made noise about - in fact all I can remember are many cases of him approving of moderator actions taken on Backstage. So I think he'll do just fine. Give him some time to get used to things, please.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Vikarion

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #36 on: 15 Feb 2013, 00:41 »

As if the case with almost all moderation action, multiple mods agreed before action was taken on the post.

I understand that. That's why I used "we" (trying to avoid an accusative "you"). I think that that's a good system, and I think that you guys (Silver, Morwen, Cia), on the whole, do a good job. My protest really was against this one particular case.
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Vikarion

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #37 on: 15 Feb 2013, 00:45 »

Morwen, thanks. That's very helpful, and you're awesome. I'll amend my understanding of the rules, then.

Since you ask so nicely, I'll withhold judgment on Jek for now, and removed that more critical paragraph from my earlier post.
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Alizabeth

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #38 on: 15 Feb 2013, 03:18 »

I still <3 you, Morwen.
That said, I think game mechanics debates should be a little less strict that RP lore debates.  It's one thing to say that "People in xyz corp are bad abc faction members because of qrs reasons."  Yeah, Eve is a big place and there is definitely another side.  In terms of mechanics, as long as it's not personal (posting a loss mail and subjecting them to ridicule) I really don't see the harm.  If I were to make the statement that putting faction small auto cannons on a talos is a dumb thing to do--well, there's not really much to debate about that.  ((In before some smart aleck comes up with the one, single, scenario where that's a good idea.))  It's not personal, just discussing a hypothetical.
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Ciarente

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #39 on: 15 Feb 2013, 03:25 »

You asked for clarification of what's expected from posters on this forum and got it.  You're entitled to your opinion: the mods do not share it, nor will we moderate according to it.
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Silver Night > I feel like we should keep Cia in reserve. A little bit for Cia's sanity, but mostly because her putting on her mod hat is like calling in Rommel to deal with a paintball game.

Lyn Farel

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #40 on: 15 Feb 2013, 09:03 »

Quote
And on the record, I can't remember a single moderation decision made on backstage that he disagreed with and made noise about - in fact all I can remember are many cases of him approving of moderator actions taken on Backstage.

Quote
So I think he'll do just fine.

Can you clarify that bit please ?
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kalaratiri

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #41 on: 15 Feb 2013, 09:08 »

((In before some smart aleck comes up with the one, single, scenario where that's a good idea.))

I have actually seen this done, except it was medium t2 autocannons, double webs, an armour tank and a tornado. Those frigates never saw it coming  :lol:
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"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani

Morwen Lagann

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Re: Modded Isis post
« Reply #42 on: 15 Feb 2013, 09:18 »

Quote
And on the record, I can't remember a single moderation decision made on backstage that he disagreed with and made noise about - in fact all I can remember are many cases of him approving of moderator actions taken on Backstage.

Quote
So I think he'll do just fine.

Can you clarify that bit please ?

What's to clarify?

Jek has done nothing but give the strong impression that he's capable of understanding and following the rules and policies of Backstage, that he agrees with the policies as they stand, is willing to enforce them, and that he isn't likely to go running around banning people for lulz.

Unlike Cia, who apparently needs to have her nuke launch keys taken away again. :lol:
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Lagging Behind

Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.
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