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News:

That Titan Doomsday Devices were originally massive, field clearing nukes instead of doomsday rays?

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Author Topic: Fed Arc  (Read 8437 times)

Samira Kernher

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #15 on: 12 Feb 2013, 05:29 »

I would imagine the fact that the majority of the war is being fought by capsuleers rather than the actual military would be one of the main causes for low morale. What's the point in signing up to defend your home if the only ones actually getting to fight are the guys with special implants?

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Vincent Pryce

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #16 on: 12 Feb 2013, 05:39 »

public execution by sound-activated cancer...

Actually, it was sound activated combustion thus burning the admiral alive on live newsfeed.

As for the news tidbit, I think it is fitting. Federation is a culture entrenched in hedonism, chemical abuse isn't that much of a surprise. Combined with the points raised earlier in this thread this is a credible news piece.

So far we have

Imperial Illiterates
State Uncivil Civil Conflict
Federate Crackheads

Awaiting on the news from the Republic.
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BloodBird

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #17 on: 12 Feb 2013, 07:11 »

...personally speaking, I don't mind the Federation having a dark underbelly. No empire is perfect, even the "good guys" in the Federation.

The Fed is not as good as it seems.

This is not the issue at hand. There are plenty of indicators that the Fed has it's dark shades as well. While on one hand they surely try to be as morally upstanding and civilized as they can (by their standards) they have their issues, less spoken of vices, and so on. That's not a problem - in fact, that is great and helps add to immersion.

The issue at hand is not that the Fed get's a "dark" stain to their reputation with this. It's that once again, you get a "The Fed tries, but is utterly incompetent" bit. There have been several of these over the years, and it seems to me to be the favorite stick to beat the Fed with, much like "Evil Corrupt Religious Slavers" is the Empire's stick and "Uncaring Fascist Corporate Servants" is the State's stick and so on. It's like a never-ending, insulting meme that never quits and insists that things never get better or improves, for anyone.

Ofc, it remains to be seen exactly how this Arc develops, but IMHO we are not off for a great start, and I'm not expecting it to get any better.

Federation is a culture entrenched in hedonism, chemical abuse isn't that much of a surprise. Combined with the points raised earlier in this thread this is a credible news piece.

The Federation is a union of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of different Cultures, resulting in a huge "melting pot" on the Federal level, stating they only have one is a great disservice. Also, despite very clear hedonistic tendencies for the vast majority of the Federal level of society, overt substance abuse are still generally banned across the Fed, why do you think the Serpentis (who face criminal charges and arrests if captured) have to smuggle their products over the border?

Utilizing combat-boosting narcotics is not in any way far-fetched - might even be very smart in many ways - but clearly not bothering to test these before distributing them to the high-quality demanding military? Yeah, that one won't fly with me, reads like more incompetence stick application.

I think there's a few things to consider in regards to the Federal Military:

- The defence budget cuts of President Foiritain in order to shift those funds to other areas of spending (citizenry might have agreed with this, since hey, no real clear and present threats at the time why not focus on the economy etc.) This would have caused a bleed out of experienced Officers and NCO's that might have hung up their uniforms to go into the private sector and which would have degraded the capacity and capability of the military overall.

- The Federation has always had issues with recruitment and retention with its military. Budget cuts would have just made its manpower issues even more painful, forcing widespread use of drones and other automated systems as stopgaps.

- Potential for war weariness on the homefront and the fact that CONCORD seems to have contained it in the CEWPA zone means there might not be much interest to sign up with the armed forces in lieu of drafting or conscription of its citizens (I'm not even sure if the Fed has a draft).

So in a situation where you've got critical manpower shortages in a military that's all voluntary and in which it seems the current CEWPA conflict might appear as an almost "phony war" to the general populace, then it seems the Federation has been forced to cut corners because no one wants to enlist and they can't do a general draft. This leads to lowered standards and issues around troop integrity, professionalism, morale, and cohesion as the article points to in trying to fight a war set by CONCORD where it's designed that no one can win in its meat grinder of attrition.

The Empyrian war started in 110, 5 years ago. Do you honestly think there are STILL serious budget costs and effects half a decade into the new conflict? PF and news entries have told us over the years that the Fed has been gearing up for the war, getting old ships out of storage, re-applying the budget for the military, upgrading old equipment, making more and getting higher percentages of volunteers for their forces across the board. I would imagine that any budget cut effects to have been cleared out in a couple years, or at least to not be a major issue anymore 5 years in.
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Alain Colcer

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #18 on: 12 Feb 2013, 07:36 »

Bloodbird, you are looking to explain something obviously (and i agree with every single point in your last post) does not seem plausible.

But now throw the political angle into the picture.

maybe this is to put in bad light a senator or political military advisor? to discredit some group of high ranking officers maybe?

could even be a caldari disguised effort to portray our military worst than theirs in the media and minds of all Federation citizens....


To me the drugs report sounded just like the case of pictures of US personnel hummillianting iraki prisoners, it was a media blow against the powers that chose to wage war.

In this case, its almost the same.....


It does not seem plausible the Fed Marines have suddenly go from top level to lowest denominator, but surely you can find some really backwater station, poorly managed and with soldiers below what you could call exemplary.

It is a sabotage in the popular opinion, nothing more, nothing less.....in a multicultural enviroment as the Fed, this must be as common as a cup of coffee.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #19 on: 12 Feb 2013, 07:54 »

Budgets cuts do not systematically lower the moral/ethical quality of troops.

I wasn't implying that at all. What I was trying to point out that is that the Federation just got out of a period of budget cuts to its defence spending, shrinking of its armed forces, and potential loss of experienced professional soldiers and commanders then straight into a war. Whilst what remained may very well have maintained the same standards of competency, the issues that the Federation seems to be facing currently is trying to expand its military rapidly - too rapidly perhaps - while still facing the problem it seems of citizens asking themselves, "Why should I sign up to fight a war in Placid? I'm quite fine where I am here in Sinq Laison."

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.


Quote from: Bloodbird
It's that once again, you get a "The Fed tries, but is utterly incompetent" bit.

Huh, I don't read it especially like that...

Where do you get that feeling ?
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Gesakaarin

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #20 on: 12 Feb 2013, 08:00 »

The Empyrian war started in 110, 5 years ago. Do you honestly think there are STILL serious budget costs and effects half a decade into the new conflict? PF and news entries have told us over the years that the Fed has been gearing up for the war, getting old ships out of storage, re-applying the budget for the military, upgrading old equipment, making more and getting higher percentages of volunteers for their forces across the board. I would imagine that any budget cut effects to have been cleared out in a couple years, or at least to not be a major issue anymore 5 years in.

Who knows? We don't have access to that data or information. I was just pointing out that the article doesn't really escape the bounds of plausibility.

It does make reference only to Federal ground units, so perhaps the Federation Navy is attracting all the funding since you need space superiority to win wars and attracting all the quality recruits because it be seen as more "Prestigious" while the Army continues to suffer from lack of funding and getting people to sign up for the infantry.
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orange

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #21 on: 12 Feb 2013, 09:00 »

The Empyrian war started in 110, 5 years ago. Do you honestly think there are STILL serious budget costs and effects half a decade into the new conflict? PF and news entries have told us over the years that the Fed has been gearing up for the war, getting old ships out of storage, re-applying the budget for the military, upgrading old equipment, making more and getting higher percentages of volunteers for their forces across the board. I would imagine that any budget cut effects to have been cleared out in a couple years, or at least to not be a major issue anymore 5 years in.

Rapid build up is part of what causes the problem.


You go from having an underbudget, highly professional, military (most likely made up of multi-generational officers & enlisted) to needing more personnel to utilize the equipment brought out of mothballs and and recent acquisition.

When funds are tight and manning requirements are lower the recruiter can be much more selective.  When you literally need any warm-body you can get to meet your needs, things change.

The cream of the Federation, the Feds' best of the best are still probably avoiding military service, especially 5 years on.
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Anslol

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #22 on: 12 Feb 2013, 10:05 »

Why not use Droids?...We have CreoDron for that reason don't we?
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Natalcya Katla

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #23 on: 12 Feb 2013, 10:28 »

There's also the factor that while you don't usually want the people who are defending your own territory and communities to be criminally inclined, shipping undesirables away to have them conquer foreign territories or to keep already conquered populations under heel may be a completely different matter. Historically, sending trouble makers off to fight wars abroad is a tried and true method of social control. You get rid of people who cause mischief at home, and if they manage to win territory, wealth or new markets for you in the process, so much the better.

The Federation is currently sitting on a whole lot of what is essentially foreign real estate that somebody has to look after. I think it's credible enough if they try to kill two birds with one stone. Probably wins votes in the regions these criminals are drained from, too.
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orange

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #24 on: 12 Feb 2013, 10:31 »

Drones suck at dealing with what is called "human terrain."  And then the story is about how the Federation is unleashing Rogue Drones on conquered Caldari.
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Anslol

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #25 on: 12 Feb 2013, 11:03 »

Drones suck at dealing with what is called "human terrain."  And then the story is about how the Federation is unleashing Rogue Drones on conquered Caldari.

If we can make starships, I doubt we're incapable of making bi-pedal or quadra-pedal mechs to deal with ground assaults.

Also, saying that using ground droids is unleashing rogue drones is like saying EVERY capsuleer and ship is in violation of CONCORD treaty by using Hammerhead II's. You don't give em a true AI. Just have someone control a platoon.
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orange

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #26 on: 12 Feb 2013, 11:11 »

Which is fine and dandy when the enemy is easily identifiable or you just want to level the settlement, village, complex, etc.  But that isn't the Federal way of war, at least not based on the perception I have.
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kalaratiri

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #27 on: 15 Feb 2013, 07:53 »

Those wacky Black Eagles, always crashing the party.

http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=5036&tid=5
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Grideris

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #28 on: 15 Feb 2013, 08:16 »

Those wacky Black Eagles, always crashing the party.

http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=5036&tid=5

Well everyone knows that rock and roll is corrupting our youth. They're just protecting the children!  :roll:
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #29 on: 15 Feb 2013, 08:52 »

The Federation have no shortage of ground-drones to assist in combat.

If I recall Templar One featured a rather nice 'spider' droid assisting our protagonists as they dutifully shuffled through the action beats.
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