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that "Operation Trinity Vanguard" was the code name for the defense of the Incursions in Anyed, Antem and Imya. The Anti-Incursion fleets contisted over 800 pilots from CVA, KotMC, Moira., Star Fraction, FCORD, SYNE Coalition and countless other corps and alliances.

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Author Topic: Fed Arc  (Read 8448 times)

orange

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Fed Arc
« on: 10 Feb 2013, 12:33 »

Federation baseline troop quality at an all time low & drug use at an all time high.

The challenges of maintaining a (volunteer?) fighting force in a democratic federation.

The challenges of achieving unit cohesion among sub-par recruits and continue fighting.

I am a little lost at how Caldari in Black Rise are exiles.
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Akrasjel Lanate

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #1 on: 10 Feb 2013, 13:15 »

About those "exiles" you should find it in the wiki about Black Rise

Quote
...Nonetheless, Black Rise on the demographic level is otherwise an anomaly when compared to the rest of the State. Because of its widespread disconnection, several communities have sprung up that are completely independent of the Caldari authorities, who otherwise do not tolerate disconnected entities within their borders...
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BloodBird

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #2 on: 10 Feb 2013, 13:50 »

So I just get home 10 minutes ago after being gone for a little over a day, and right in the middle of my face there is a nice new news-story regarding the Fed that goes something like this:

"Due to very high demands for troops the standards are lowered and we now have ex-criminal Federal troops that run on drugs to cope with low morale and effectiveness, leading to abuse towards Caldari people in Black Rise and elsewhere. This is a problem and will be dealt with."

While rather realistic considering the universe, the situation, the group in question and so on and so forth, I can't help but think there is this nice take-away for the anti-Federals out there:

"Federal troops are formerly criminal, drug fueled thugs abusing the local Caldari population in their controlled conquered territory."

I have not even gone to the IGS yet and I just know there will be a topic, there will be rhetoric thrown about, and from now on all Federals "obviously" behave like this and it will never be lived down. I only have one thing to say to this...

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

*EDIT* I was a bit to harsh. No dedicated posts yet, atl not that I could see. Still, I am strangely both surprised and not to find this kind of news - while on one hand the Fed has a very high standard for their troops, recently they have needed loads more than usual. However, the situation has to be pretty damned grim indeed if they accept having many soldiers being former criminals and use drugs, and suffer from low morale and tend to take it out on local folks.

Damn, all we need now is a Resoc program and bulky armor and there might be a law-suit coming our way :P
« Last Edit: 11 Feb 2013, 10:00 by BloodBird »
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orange

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #3 on: 10 Feb 2013, 14:22 »

Oddly enough, there does not appear to be an IGS thread about it at the moment.  I suspect this is largely because while it will prove useful in a propaganda war, the State characters are having enough trouble with an internal consistent  message.

It will be used as a response when accusations fly of CPD/corporate/etc abuses of populations - "The Federation can't control its own troops, clean up your own house."  But right now the conversation just isn't there.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #4 on: 10 Feb 2013, 16:24 »

You can also see it as a counterbalance to the fact that all the other empires have their stains on the exact same thing we are talking about here.

- The Minmatar have Valklears, which are basically the worst criminals ever, rehabilitated. They also have freedom fighters that kill on sight everything that looks Amarrian.
- The Caldari have their ruthless provists, as we have been able to witness countless times, the last one being when that infamous gallente film maker got lynched. And when you know that they mostly related to Dragonaurs, well.
- The Amarr probably enslave conquered populations.

So, I am not sure if causing an outrage for that is the best idea. If you are so afraid to see that kind of thing used as propaganda - and as you say it probably will be - then use your own and tell people that all the other ones have done it for ages, and call them hypocrites for pointing out something that the Feds have almost never done until now.
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Gabriel Darkefyre

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #5 on: 10 Feb 2013, 18:31 »

It's entirely possible that the Criminal Record's that are being overlooked for Federal Service is for more Minor Crimes than the ones that the Valklears are Guilty of prior to their Enlistment in the Unit.

So, stuff like Possession of Minor Narcotics, Joyriding, Acts of Vandalism etc. The Kinds of Crimes which may earn you an Official Entry on your Record, but not Jail Time.
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #6 on: 10 Feb 2013, 19:05 »

Well, I know it's shocking if something like this happens. A piece of news that can be used against ones faction. About 1/3 of all news of Amarr is usually used against the Amarr by the usual player of a Gallentean, so...

I don't see why one should complain, honestly.
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #7 on: 10 Feb 2013, 19:12 »

I don't see why one should complain, honestly.

I remember there was a thread a while back about how the Federation is being portrayed always in the worst sense via News, or something.

orange

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #8 on: 10 Feb 2013, 19:25 »

I don't see why one should complain, honestly.

I remember there was a thread a while back about how the Federation is being portrayed always in the worst sense via News, or something.

Quote
If it bleeds it leads.
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BloodBird

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #9 on: 11 Feb 2013, 10:42 »

Well, I know it's shocking if something like this happens. A piece of news that can be used against ones faction. About 1/3 of all news of Amarr is usually used against the Amarr by the usual player of a Gallentean, so...

I don't see why one should complain, honestly.

The aggressive sarcasm is not really needed.

Having said that, my annoyance is not really that it happened - as I pointed out, it's a mostly realistic scenario considering everything - but more the way it did. The Fed has been portrayed so far as actually caring allot for the image portrayed by their ground-based troops and their fleet forces, leading to very high standards in what is already a volunteer force. Now, I can easily believe that this kind of standard can be relaxed due to the very real fact that, say, the Caldari State - seeing service as a very, very good thing and holding immense respect for their Navy forces - likely have 5 or more Navy crew personnel for every single one the Fed has. You have the bigger Empire, but you are massively outnumbered in head-count, AND you have larger areas to cover. After all drones can only help cover so much, so you will need more troops and you needed them yesterday.

However now suddenly they introduce not just a slightly relaxation in standards, but seemingly throwing the standards out the air-lock.

Utilizing people with criminal records? Sure. As mentioned it don't have to be too serious crimes, or anything.

Allowing the use of Combat stimulants and drugs? Okay... this is the Fed after all, and while there is a long lost of banned drugs (that people take anyhow, because fuck the government, what do they know) this one have combat-useful results.

Being slow enough to react to the bad fallout from this that local civilians gets abused? Right. Ofc. This should have been a highly experimental trial. Going from no criminal records, no drugs and no lapse in discipline being allowed, to trying out new drugs on criminals who happen to be stationed in sensitive areas of the newly claimed sections of Black Rise. Yeah, ofc.

And then there is the news that for some reason I can't find, morale is at an all-time low. What for? Up until recently the Fed was even winning, HARD. Why is this such a huge problem now, so huge they would allow seemingly untested narcotics, of all things, to circulate between their troops?

It makes little to no sense to me, other than a feeling that, it was time to throw the Fed's integrity out and just grime it up with a bit more grim-dark. Very heavy-handed, at that, I think.

I can personally explain why, considering their origin, I see little to no issue with the more rugged or crude or high-numbers among the other Empire's ground troops, like Vaklears, Kameiras, State troops etc. One of the Federation's "things" was that because they have very, very few actual troops compared to a massive militaristic and dogmatic Empire, a high-population, constantly-in-conflict Republic and a warfare-and-service-is-our-way-of-life type State, (I simplify, ofc] their way fewer troops was trained to and maintained a far higher standard. Now they don't even have that.

Curse my language and communication skills, I'm not even sure I get my desired message across well enough to be fully understood. I'll try a simple comparison.

Imagine that you are a fanatical anti-gay chilling in a bar in your favorite no-gays-allowed country. You can safely say to yourself 'naah man, no gays will ever get allowed in here.' And in the very next moment, a gay-pride parade marches by your window and the news proclaim that the entire *thing* you believed would always stay true has just been changed.

I had the impression that in the Fed, your average citizen could always rely on the official Federation troopers to be at a very high standard of professionalism, integrity, code of conduct etc. and that some things would just never be allowed to happen. Now there is a sort of gap between the 'high quality, low quantity' Fed troopers and the new-ish 'high quantity, low quality' kind on the other end of the spectrum.
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Anslol

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #10 on: 11 Feb 2013, 13:19 »

While to story line kind of bores me, it's believable. It echoes a lot about Anslo's past.

The Fed is not as good as it seems.
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Matoko

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #11 on: 12 Feb 2013, 01:23 »

I have two characters, both Gallente (I technically have a Minmatar as well, but I haven't really toyed with him in a while so he doesn't count). And, personally speaking, I don't mind the Federation having a dark underbelly. No empire is perfect, even the "good guys" in the Federation. I mean heck, Serpentis, Rogue Drones, public execution by sound-activated cancer... There's a lot the Federation has to answer for. But this? This I'm unsure about. Mostly because it doesn't seem to take into account what the players are doing. I've been on the receiving end of that before, and that was in a much smaller community. Didn't kill the game, just made everything needlessly uncomfortable while everyone tried to retcon and adjust their personal histories.
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Gesakaarin

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #12 on: 12 Feb 2013, 02:01 »

I think there's a few things to consider in regards to the Federal Military:

- The defence budget cuts of President Foiritain in order to shift those funds to other areas of spending (citizenry might have agreed with this, since hey, no real clear and present threats at the time why not focus on the economy etc.) This would have caused a bleed out of experienced Officers and NCO's that might have hung up their uniforms to go into the private sector and which would have degraded the capacity and capability of the military overall.

- The Federation has always had issues with recruitment and retention with its military. Budget cuts would have just made its manpower issues even more painful, forcing widespread use of drones and other automated systems as stopgaps.

- Potential for war weariness on the homefront and the fact that CONCORD seems to have contained it in the CEWPA zone means there might not be much interest to sign up with the armed forces in lieu of drafting or conscription of its citizens (I'm not even sure if the Fed has a draft).

So in a situation where you've got critical manpower shortages in a military that's all voluntary and in which it seems the current CEWPA conflict might appear as an almost "phony war" to the general populace, then it seems the Federation has been forced to cut corners because no one wants to enlist and they can't do a general draft. This leads to lowered standards and issues around troop integrity, professionalism, morale, and cohesion as the article points to in trying to fight a war set by CONCORD where it's designed that no one can win in its meat grinder of attrition.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #13 on: 12 Feb 2013, 04:42 »

Budgets cuts do not systematically lower the moral/ethical quality of troops.

I can assure you it does not, since it is the case in my own country. We start to have severe lack of material and equipement, but the overall quality of troops has remained the same. If not even better, since they are fewer of them, but more professional.

I really agree with the rest though.
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Gesakaarin

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Re: Fed Arc
« Reply #14 on: 12 Feb 2013, 05:19 »

Budgets cuts do not systematically lower the moral/ethical quality of troops.

I wasn't implying that at all. What I was trying to point out that is that the Federation just got out of a period of budget cuts to its defence spending, shrinking of its armed forces, and potential loss of experienced professional soldiers and commanders then straight into a war. Whilst what remained may very well have maintained the same standards of competency, the issues that the Federation seems to be facing currently is trying to expand its military rapidly - too rapidly perhaps - while still facing the problem it seems of citizens asking themselves, "Why should I sign up to fight a war in Placid? I'm quite fine where I am here in Sinq Laison."
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