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[Gesakaarin]

The difficulty IC-wise for me given this chron and recent events is that the CPD/Heth has gone from a somewhat grey and dubious area that can be worked within (popular front, labour movement, war hero, return of Caldari Prime etc etc) that could somewhat legitimize certain aspects and justify support (Even if others disagreed) to a very clear cut black and white matter due to continued applications of boots to faces, infringement of corporate sovereignty and basically giving the finger to the CBT.

The aspects that once permitted a degree of subtlety in supporting the CPD are now lost because for a lot Caldari that were "raised in the system" the current actions by Heth and the CPD make justifying or rationalizing support almost impossible.

[Vikarion]

Yep. I've been interacting with the actors and other players, but I think I'm pulling out of that. Definitely terminating contact with the actors.

[orange]

The aspects that once permitted a degree of subtlety in supporting the CPD are now lost because for a lot Caldari that were "raised in the system" the current actions by Heth and the CPD make justifying or rationalizing support almost impossible.

Ding Ding

[Silver Night]

The difficulty IC-wise for me given this chron and recent events is that the CPD/Heth has gone from a somewhat grey and dubious area that can be worked within (popular front, labour movement, war hero, return of Caldari Prime etc etc) that could somewhat legitimize certain aspects and justify support (Even if others disagreed) to a very clear cut black and white matter due to continued applications of boots to faces, infringement of corporate sovereignty and basically giving the finger to the CBT.

The aspects that once permitted a degree of subtlety in supporting the CPD are now lost because for a lot Caldari that were "raised in the system" the current actions by Heth and the CPD make justifying or rationalizing support almost impossible.

While this is seriously problematic IC, I think they are doing a fair job of showing a slide from 'grey' toward much darker grey by Heth (which seems pretty consistent with a near-dictatorship).

[Gesakaarin]

While this is seriously problematic IC, I think they are doing a fair job of showing a slide from 'grey' toward much darker grey by Heth (which seems pretty consistent with a near-dictatorship).

I would agree to an extent, but currently unless a character is 100% Provist/Templis it's very difficult to support the CPD because prior to about a week ago they were essentially an organization inside the CEP and corporate-legal framework of the State, right now they are very clearly and very publicly violating and transgressing what some might consider fundamental and important aspects of Caldari State society.

It's almost like Jamyl Sarum giving the finger to the Seekers of Truth, Theology Council and Privy Council in public and then asking Amarrian characters not to question it.

[Silver Night]

Might be a difference in perspective, because this seems to me more a furthering of existing CPD tendencies, rather than a sudden turn. The existence of the CPD itself was an imposition on the previous status quo, as far as how the Megas exercised power.

[Gesakaarin]

Might be a difference in perspective, because this seems to me more a furthering of existing CPD tendencies, rather than a sudden turn. The existence of the CPD itself was an imposition on the previous status quo, as far as how the Megas exercised power.

The issue is one, fundamentally of the notion of corporate sovereignty in the State. Whilst previously the actions of the CPD could be justified by the Megas ceding their strategic control to Heth and the mentions of "popular support" in PF as regards the New Meritocracy and the CPD. At present those notions of a degree of consensus and support for the CPD from the CEP members and the population dissolves when it's clearly shown that there are widespread anti-provist rallies (not just Ishukone specific), violations of corporate independence by the CPD as shown in actions against Intara and Ishukone as well as a disregard for the CBT as shown in the Intara suit against KK.

The subtlety before was that if the CPD were violating corporate sovereignty then they were doing it with at least a degree of discretion or behind closed doors, right now it's all very much in the public eye for every citizen of the State and they can and will judge upon it.

[Silver Night]

I would tend to agree it is a drastic escalation. The original idea that popular support (and so, the spectre of popular revolt) is part of what drove the CPD into power (and without getting into the various problems I have on a plot level for everything EA-related) is itself sort of against the grain of corporate sovereignty, though: The State isn't a democracy, popular support isn't really supposed to get you into power unless something goes terribly wrong.

I think CCP probably is going toward Heth losing the vast majority of public support, but from an IC perspective the current situation could easily be interpreted as a minority - perhaps a 'small but vocal' minority protesting, rather than a genuine popular movement. Ultimately you might be wrong IC, but that's part of the fun.

[Gesakaarin]

I think CCP probably is going toward Heth losing the vast majority of public support, but from an IC perspective the current situation could easily be interpreted as a minority - perhaps a 'small but vocal' minority protesting, rather than a genuine popular movement. Ultimately you might be wrong IC, but that's part of the fun.

Personally, the protests are less important than the string of corporate sovereignty violations and the injunction delivered by a CPD executive order to the CBT to favour KK that caused a, "What the hell?" moment.

[Silver Night]

Well, yes. It does seem a pretty colossal misstep. Though you could try and spin it as all falling under the 'security of the State' or something.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Previously I found it easy to argue in favour of the CPD and Heth from the standpoint of being a Patriot with a traditional upbringing. That is to say that if you viewed the CDP as being an emergency measure and Heth being the guy who was restoring the vitality of the old traditions then Patriot politics, CDP support and Traditional leanings went together well.

Now my Traditional leanings and Patriot politics are revolting rather strongly against supporting the CDP - regardless of the state of emergency.

[Sepherim]

Sometimes, when social and political systems start to crack, the ones in power start making desperate measures to try to remain in power. You can see examples all over the Middle East after the Arab Spring, for example, with Siria and Lybia probably being the best ones. Just seems like Heth is in that line now.

[lallara zhuul]

It's almost like Jamyl Sarum giving the finger to the Seekers of Truth, Theology Council and Privy Council in public and then asking Amarrian characters not to question it.

Like her being a clone and becoming the Empress?

Welcome to EVE, where any kind of logic in the storyline does not matter.

[Khloe]

What we're seeing are several players on the board leaping to take advantage of a power vacuum left behind by a rapidly deteriorating Heth regime.  He's desperate to keep hold of what's left of his empire while everyone else is working hard to tear it apart. I suppose if I was playing a Heth Provist, I'd be trying to convince myself that any kind of instability in the State could give their enemies an advantage, where a civil war could even irrevocably tear the empire apart.

[Hamish Grayson]

Yeah, I'm going to be SUPER CRANKY if this is CCP's way of saying to Caldari RPers "You didn't like being semi-Nazis? Your faction just went FULL FASCIST! Deal with it!"

Never go full fascist.