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[Keirym Thara]

Is it not allowable for compatriots of this would-be endeavor to enroll themselves into the 24th, without involving the unity of the corporation?  Those that want to participate can do so, those that do not, need not subject themselves to the further tension of heightened alert status constantly.

Or did I misunderstand the recruitment poster, and when you enlist, you leave your corp?

[Lyn Farel]

When you enlist, or the corporation enlists, you can be attacked everywhere, and are barred from entering Minmatar and Gallente space as well. It presents no advantages whatsoever for non pvp folks in such a corporation.

[Gor Na]

Lyn is right, being enlisted is a serious step.

The thing is, we already founded corps very similar to the proposed by Esna in the first place. The active one is Nebukah industries, situated in Khanid space, not enlisted and charged with production and trade. Another one is held by an Alt of mine, Bra'ak Zhahyanid and called Amarr 86th Home Guard. It's sole purpose is to function as a High-Sec-PvE-Corp (although I didn't make any steps to bring it into activity yet).

You might wonder, why I didn't talk about them before, I just hadn't thought that our newer concept is that uncalled for.

[Keirym Thara]

Completely understand the risk.  I guess my question was:  When you enlist for FW, are you joining the 86th as a Corp?  Or do you remain as a member of your current corporation? 

The answer is the former, of course, but it took some research to spot that.  I think I missed it the first time through.

[Gor Na]

I think I caused more confusion than clarity.^^ (sorry for that)

Since we (Zacharias Nebukah and I) didn't know about other projects to further the loyalist community,
we decided to form corporations suiting that cause. That were the foundings of Neb-I and the 86th.

We recently discussed around and came to the conclusion, that a single corp engaging in all fields might be
better than several specialised corps (I have to add, that we estimated the risks of FW far off the warzone
pretty low and didn't consider any need to travel to hostile space).

At the current state, those two mentioned corps still exist, while that order isn't founded yet. I guess we should
rather wait before rushing forward pointlessly. If one of you guys wants to start something, I would support it if
I can. The other way around is fine for me too (if you would like to join in). I'd be happy to help the community
either way.

[Keirym Thara]

A single corp, maybe with different leaders heading up specialized 'teams' would be a great idea.  You could have a PVP team, an industrial team, a missioning team... and people can hop from team to team.  If it were truly informal, your team leaders just set policies, events and standards and the participants join in as they want/can.

I like the approach versus all of the specialized corps that I am finding in research.  I want to do it all, not be bound to requirements in one area.  Not every one is like that, but most come off that way, which is why I hesitate.

The only thing that seems hard-lined is the participation in the Factional Warfare aspect.  You are either in, or you aren't.  From what I am reading and hearing, the only way to single-group the approach is two corps in an alliance.  One for FW, one for everything else.  I have yet to research whether a war declared on a corp in the alliance automatically involves every other alliance corp.

[Lyn Farel]

You can not war dec a corp when the corp is in an alliance, you have to war dec the whole alliance. An alliance is by definition a group of people defending each other in the first place after all.

You can enlist either yourself (by joining the NPC FW corps like the 24th IC, the TLF, etc), either a corp (with people inside), or either an alliance in a FW militia. But like for war decs, it has always to be the top layer that is involved, meaning that if you are enlisted in FW, you are either part of a NPC FW corp, or a player corp enlisted in FW, or a player alliance (with corps inside) all enlisted in FW through the alliance.

But otherwise Gor Na, what you propose is similar to PIE Inc - which is not a bad thing - but people here do not want specifically to be enlisted in FW.

[Gor Na]

Considering all that is said, here's some thoughts on how it could be done.

We get ourselves a platform for communications (set up a forum) and use it to create an informal network.
Every loyalist corp can participate, there will be no alliance founded to begin with, cooperation will be made
on agreement.

As it seems there already are several corps suiting the concept (including NEB-I and the 86th), I can think of
other specialised services to be brought in. Logistic corps, such for training, maybe even ones who take on
outsourced recruitment. The Amarr space is vast and so is the range of possibilities. The only rules applied
should be the mentioned three (declared Amarr subjects, NRDS, anti-piracy).

I guess by doing it that way, we could include the discussed project as well as having PvPers within the community and
we could avoid dragging each other into unwanted difficulties.

What say you?

[Esna Pitoojee]

I think I missed some posts here, but I will stick my head in and make two points:

One, is that what was proposed a few posts up rather significantly diverges from my original vision in that it bars any non-Amarr from having any leadership position whatsoever no matter their dedication and work for the cause, and also would operate under an Amarr-only hulls policy. This was not at all part of my original vision - the leadership thing was discussed with friends and it was decided personal motivation and dedication to the project should be the primary driving factors; the matter of hulls did not come up, as it had not been considered something that would even matter. I will further add that frankly, such tight restrictions seem to run against the idea of a "casual" corp, where people who are interested in being part of an Amarr community but not ready for the 100%, super-hardcore dedication Gor's proposal entails could reside.

Second, the FW thing.

Even beyond TRIAD's campaign thing, the concern I would have with being in FW is that it would present a significant hazard to mission runners and anyone operating out of the market hubs (i.e., Jita and/or Amarr). I think market hub camping by hostile FW people is still relatively common, and I know they will go looking at the popular mission spots.

[Rin Kaelestria]

I'm not sure what certain people keep going on about, but if there's any confusion as to what this thread was originally about, here it is. Esna saw an issue, that there were a lot of Amarr players out there looking for an Amarr based corporation with a primary basis of doing PvE things in EVE (I was/am one of them). However, at the time of this thread's start, there were very few options for Amarr RPers looking for an Amarr based corporation. One, which is PIE/PAUX, who have already stated that they don't require people to do the FW thing. However, being situated in FW, that means there's a constant war dec over their heads, and having been in FW myself once, I know for a fact that being in high sec Amarr/Caldari space does not prevent Galente/Minmatar militia people from crossing into said enemy high sec looking for easy targets. The other possible option was CVA, but let's face it, CVA isn't what it once was, nor is it as RP focused as it use to be. Not to mention that's Null sec life, a whole different can of worms.

What Esna originally was asking for, was advise on if it was possible for him to run an Amarr based corporation that focuses on the PvE aspect of the game using an alt he would make just for this. Which meant, no FW at all. However, after seeing the advice given by other people, he realized he couldn't be the dedicated CEO that such an endevour needed, and dropped the idea.

I'm glad to see that this thread didn't entirely die, and that some are insterested in stepping up to make such a corp. It has potential, especially to help unite some of the more scattered members of the Amarr RP bloc who just weren't interested in PIE or felt like they wouldn't do well within PIE's walls.

Not to single you out here now, Gor Na, but the idea that you originally posted doesn't seem to fit what the OP was trying to do. Don't get me wrong, it seems like a good potential idea for another Amarr FW corporation (the war zone needs it, tbh), and could give another option to people in the Amarr bloc who are looking for the FW experience. By all means, go for it! It's just not the idea that was originally behind this thread, nor what peeks the interests of those who responded in this thread looking for something more casual and based in PvE.

[Gor Na]

So....

FW wasn't the core point of all this the whole time. The main thing is to bring Amarr RPers together (one idea included
FW, but that was that one thing, the corp that doesn't even exist yet).

And now to really stick to what Esna proposed (and I had that in mind the entire time): all who like to get into high-sec
industry can join Nebukah industries. All that want to focus on PvE, can join the Amarr 86th Home Guard. People can of
course stay out of them and still participate. Membership is not a must.

This is no call for recruitment, it's a mere offer for those falling under Esna's description (and everbody else who likes to
play along).

[Lyn Farel]

Well yeah either way it may be a good opportunity for every people interested here to discuss about something in common. Can be an alliance of pve/industry loyalist corps in high sec, for example ?

Not that i'm interested of course, but it would be a shame for the Amarr side.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Aim: An Amarr-aligned casual PvE/light industry RP corp for those who do not fit into the PIE or (other even more dedicated) Amarr FW corps but don't want to have their own small corp.

Proposal:

A corp having an 'inward' rather than 'outward' focus. The corp won't define itself by outward appearances. Thus it will be:

   -taking in Amarr as well as others.
   -not limiting access to leadership positions based on race
   -not limiting the hulls to fly.

There will be limits to membership, though. The corp will make some requirements in regard to those joining in. People applying should be

   -loyal to God (as per Amarrian religion) and the Amarr Empire
   -no fundamentalist religious nutcase-fanatics
   -no racists

This doesn't mean that the corp is meant to be a liberal alternative to PIE or a bunch of anti-slavery activists. Rather as it won't have the benefit of outward appearance through ships and not allowing certain races in, action and attitude of the members must make clear that the corp is loyal to the Empire. For example acceptance of slavery as a means to bringing the wayward closer to God is a given in my opinion by Amarr religion. On the other hand that doesn't mean that one has to practice slavery (in fact this should be mainly restricted to Holders anyway) or that one can't debate on good practice in regard to slave holding (see Policy on Slaves).

I envision the corp as an association of people that work together for the greater glory of God and the Empire, without having need of too much of a hierarchy. In many regards it will be similar to PIE, but in some places where PIE is a paramilitary organization, the corp will more closely resemble a humanitarian and religious organization. Thus I gave the corp  the working title "Imperial Skete": A Skete (from Coptic via Greek σκήτη), is a monastic community in Eastern Christianity that allows relative isolation for monks, but also allows for communal services and the safety of shared resources and protection.

A few quotes that give an idea of what I envison:
"Ora et Labora!" - Pray and work!
"Contemplare et Contemplata Aliis Tradere." - To contemplate and to hand on the fruits of contemplation.
"Pro Fide Propaganda." - For the propagation of the faith.

Given the above reasons it is probably not surprising that I took the liberty to orient myself on the PIE ethos and rules:

"Imperial Skete" Ethos
"Imperial Skete" is a community of individuals with common goals (outlined in the Mission Statement and Aims & Objectives). Pilots work together for the good of the Empire and the Corporation - not because they are ordered to do so but out of a sense of camaraderie, friendship and loyalty.
Financially members must make their own way in the world. However, loans for insurance and other purposes will hopefully be in the future available from the Corp. There is no restriction on the generosity of members to their fellow members.

Mission Statement
"Imperial Skete's" main focus will be fighting internal threats to the Amarr Empire and strengthening it from within as well as fostering good relations to it's allies. The definition of Empire includes the legitimate Empress, our Scriptures, our traditions and way of life. It does extend through this to what is commonly called "Greater Amarr". Internal threats include heretics, common pirates (also dubbed 'rats) and illegal activities of foreign powers within the Empire's borders. "Imperial Skete" will in this regard will mainly operate as servitor of the Empire in the form of it's and it's various institutions agents. Strengthening the Empire from within can take a variety of shapes, like supporting trade, industry as well as research within the Empire (and allied nations).

Aims and Objectives
   -We will uphold our Scriptures and traditions and aim to spread the word through example and teaching.
   -The word of our God is law and we will uphold the word of God as revealed by His mouthpiece of God in the mortal world, the Empress.
   -We will act with honor and dignity at all times, in victory and in defeat.

Policy On Slaves
Emperor Heideran VII stated that slaves must be treated fairly, a sentiment our current Empress shares. The justification of slavery lies with teaching the slaves the ways of God and bringing them fully into the fold. We must therefore treat slaves fairly and aim to educate them so that they can be brought fully into the fold. If we do not, we go against the word of God.

"Imperial Skete" members are free to keep and trade slaves, within the bounds of their status by Amarrian law. Slaves are to be treated fairly and not be murdered in cold blood. There is no rational reason for such behavior, punishments according to the crimes of a slave are of course permitted.

==
So far, feedback would be appreciated!

-Nico

[Gor Na]

Hey Nico!

Sounds very good to me.

I'd be up for it and bring a character in or two. As I think that some (or maybe a lot) of people
will support the idea, but are determined to keep their own corporation, we should still incorporate
Imperial Skete in a loose network like I proposed before. Reasons for that could be the handling
of wealth and assets, having an own theme, ... you name it. As the starter corp for the whole
project, however, a strong focus should be kept on Imperial Skete and joint actions be centered
around it.

We do have forums that could be altered accordingly, so if you like, Zacharias Nebukah and I could
host and handle this. As for the corp itself: would you found it or should I? I'd be happy and supportive
either way.

[Lyn Farel]

Aim: An Amarr-aligned casual PvE/light industry RP corp for those who do not fit into the PIE or (other even more dedicated) Amarr FW corps but don't want to have their own small corp.

Proposal:

A corp having an 'inward' rather than 'outward' focus. The corp won't define itself by outward appearances. Thus it will be:

   -taking in Amarr as well as others.
   -not limiting access to leadership positions based on race
   -not limiting the hulls to fly.

There will be limits to membership, though. The corp will make some requirements in regard to those joining in. People applying should be

   -loyal to God (as per Amarrian religion) and the Amarr Empire
   -no fundamentalist religious nutcase-fanatics
   -no racists

This doesn't mean that the corp is meant to be a liberal alternative to PIE or a bunch of anti-slavery activists. Rather as it won't have the benefit of outward appearance through ships and not allowing certain races in, action and attitude of the members must make clear that the corp is loyal to the Empire. For example acceptance of slavery as a means to bringing the wayward closer to God is a given in my opinion by Amarr religion. On the other hand that doesn't mean that one has to practice slavery (in fact this should be mainly restricted to Holders anyway) or that one can't debate on good practice in regard to slave holding (see Policy on Slaves).

I envision the corp as an association of people that work together for the greater glory of God and the Empire, without having need of too much of a hierarchy. In many regards it will be similar to PIE, but in some places where PIE is a paramilitary organization, the corp will more closely resemble a humanitarian and religious organization. Thus I gave the corp  the working title "Imperial Skete": A Skete (from Coptic via Greek σκήτη), is a monastic community in Eastern Christianity that allows relative isolation for monks, but also allows for communal services and the safety of shared resources and protection.

A few quotes that give an idea of what I envison:
"Ora et Labora!" - Pray and work!
"Contemplare et Contemplata Aliis Tradere." - To contemplate and to hand on the fruits of contemplation.
"Pro Fide Propaganda." - For the propagation of the faith.

Given the above reasons it is probably not surprising that I took the liberty to orient myself on the PIE ethos and rules:

"Imperial Skete" Ethos
"Imperial Skete" is a community of individuals with common goals (outlined in the Mission Statement and Aims & Objectives). Pilots work together for the good of the Empire and the Corporation - not because they are ordered to do so but out of a sense of camaraderie, friendship and loyalty.
Financially members must make their own way in the world. However, loans for insurance and other purposes will hopefully be in the future available from the Corp. There is no restriction on the generosity of members to their fellow members.

Mission Statement
"Imperial Skete's" main focus will be fighting internal threats to the Amarr Empire and strengthening it from within as well as fostering good relations to it's allies. The definition of Empire includes the legitimate Empress, our Scriptures, our traditions and way of life. It does extend through this to what is commonly called "Greater Amarr". Internal threats include heretics, common pirates (also dubbed 'rats) and illegal activities of foreign powers within the Empire's borders. "Imperial Skete" will in this regard will mainly operate as servitor of the Empire in the form of it's and it's various institutions agents. Strengthening the Empire from within can take a variety of shapes, like supporting trade, industry as well as research within the Empire (and allied nations).

Aims and Objectives
   -We will uphold our Scriptures and traditions and aim to spread the word through example and teaching.
   -The word of our God is law and we will uphold the word of God as revealed by His mouthpiece of God in the mortal world, the Empress.
   -We will act with honor and dignity at all times, in victory and in defeat.

Policy On Slaves
Emperor Heideran VII stated that slaves must be treated fairly, a sentiment our current Empress shares. The justification of slavery lies with teaching the slaves the ways of God and bringing them fully into the fold. We must therefore treat slaves fairly and aim to educate them so that they can be brought fully into the fold. If we do not, we go against the word of God.

"Imperial Skete" members are free to keep and trade slaves, within the bounds of their status by Amarrian law. Slaves are to be treated fairly and not be murdered in cold blood. There is no rational reason for such behavior, punishments according to the crimes of a slave are of course permitted.

==
So far, feedback would be appreciated!

-Nico

Sounds like a pve version of old KotMC