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[Shaalira]

Interesting tidbits courtesy of Mordu's Legion:

One of these incidents was the Waschi Uprising, which took place a few decades ago in the Kamokor system. Then, a few radical Caldari attacked settlements of Intakis in the system and proclaimed that the Caldari State was solely for people of Caldari origin. The Caldari authority, as ever fearful that their finely woven social tapestry of corporatism would be torn asunder, sent in their best military units to quell the uprising before it could spread any further.

After the war ended the Intakis were offered cheap land and accommodations in Waschi City on the planet of Kamokor IV. For awhile the Intakis lived peacefully, slowly becoming part of the Waschi community. Yet the presence of the Intakis caused tension in the city and slowly radicals, feeding on the xenophobic tendencies of the Caldari, gained strength. In the end the radicals gained majority in the city and began seriously harassing the Intakis.

A few take-away points:
- Ethnic and racial fanatics exist among the Caldari, however the state-supported paradigm is that of a "social tapestry of corporatism" that presumably transcends race.
- Caldari have "xenophobic tendencies."
- Although the State moved to suppress the xenophobic uprising, the Intaki were still driven out of Waschi and were forced to take matters into their own hands under the leadership of Mordu.
- The Waschi Uprising did not "leave a lasting mark" on Caldari society.  This suggests the officially supported paradigm of corporatism over race is still in place.

[hellgremlin]

Been playing Istvaan as a partial xenophobe since day one. Hates Gallente, mostly pities but generally dislikes Minmatar.

[Gesakaarin]

I would say Caldari nationalism is the defining aspect of the State. On the one hand, the corporations through a variety of means seek to tie national identity to the State and the Megacorps. (Cold Wind was published by a Lai Dai publishing group for instance) and of the CEP they constitute. Yet, too much nationalism works against their interests for it potentially breeds loyalty to groups and organizations that do not support the established order in the State or accept that to be Caldari is to be loyal to the State and thus the Megacorps.

Waschi, Heth, and the support the CPD enjoys all point to the fact that concepts of Caldari nationalism is particularly strong in the State, my interest is trying to see how others see the Civire and Deteis fitting into that identity.

[Matariki Rain]

I'd suggest that cultural loyalty runs deeper than loyalty to a unified political state.

To me it's seemed that there's a traditional package of being a good Caldari person within the context and aegis of your corporation. The idea of loyalty to a Caldari state seems a more recent thing, and paradoxically un-Caldari. That's one of the things that's so troubling about Hethites.

Also, I think Seri's questioning how the Deteis and Civire "lines" would keep separate rather than intermingling. That's a question I find intriguing and suggestive.

[Silver Night]

I'd agree that it's more a matter of Caldari cultural identity, rather than loyalty to the State. I think the corporate loyalty is probably more ingrained - and more equivalent to what you would think of as nationalist sentiment..

[Lithium Flower]

A few take-away points:
- Ethnic and racial fanatics exist among the Caldari, however the state-supported paradigm is that of a "social tapestry of corporatism" that presumably transcends race.

I don't think at all, that this is somehow related to race or ethnicity. From my point of view, this fanaticism is based on self determination as Caldari, rather than being born as Civire or Deteis. When Intaki live together, they aren't assimilated into State completely, but rather keep their own customs, habits and beliefs. This makes them alien to Caldari, not their origin.

- Caldari have "xenophobic tendencies."

Like all people do. On words, there is nothing wrong living with peoples of different culture, but in fact it is very uneasy. I've lived a bit with a person of some religion (don't ask me to tell which), that I even knew about a bit. But it gave me some creeps and wtf moments. I bet many peoples can't bear it at all when it continues daily.

- Although the State moved to suppress the xenophobic uprising, the Intaki were still driven out of Waschi and were forced to take matters into their own hands under the leadership of Mordu.

It is in State's interests to keep employees close, but forcing people who are scaring each other to live together won't give positive results! 

- The Waschi Uprising did not "leave a lasting mark" on Caldari society.  This suggests the officially supported paradigm of corporatism over race is still in place.

I still believe that racial problems for Caldari society are insignificant. However, colliding national and corporate interests may give interesting results. With the recent events in Caldari life (and force support from Provist agents), I think national interests can overtake corporate interests.

Been playing Istvaan as a partial xenophobe since day one. Hates Gallente, mostly pities but generally dislikes Minmatar.

*embraces Istvaan* 

[NISYN Aelisha]

On the topic of xenophobia, I agree with Lithium to a large degree, but feel that human nature itself may assert ultra-nationalist tendencies in some closed or isolated groups, as an influx of new blood threatens (at least in the short term) the meritocratic model.  Basically, new people may or may not be more capable than the current incumbents of a given position, and though the mega corporate hierarchy is resilient, the smaller, local authorities are not so insulated.  This may lead to a 'they took our jobs' rivalry in addition to, as Lithium pointed out, a dislike for cultural segregation in some communities, leading to what appears to be (and for some is) race hatred. 

As for Aelisha's background, being a capsuleer she is somewhat shielded from racial discrimination, but she goes through Caldari intermediaries, frequently of Deteis origin, specifically to deal with baseliner authorities.  Generally, ICly, I am very wary of playing up to being a 'fully integrated citizen' as I only have four years of State citizenship under my belt and feel that it would be ill-mannered to claim membership in a meritocratic society at the same level as born citizens, until exemplary activity or life long service distinguish me as such.  With capsuleers, however, I feel no such compunction, all of us being somewhat isolated from the laymen and women of the State. 

[Vikarion]

They can't be too xenophobic, however. One of the few areas regarding the Caldari that CCP hasn't made an effort to ruin is their very harmonious and accepting relationship (relatively speaking) with the Achura. There was even a news article about Caldari trying to follow Achuran traditions for business success or something like that a few years back.

[Gottii]

I think the reason people have a hard time conceptualizing the State in a lot of ways its a marriage between two rather divergent forces.

The "State" was created by megacorps who likely simply wanted more profit (cus thats what theyre designed to do, at least initially), and were willing to go to extremes to get it, who allied with Caldari conservatives and populists who didnt want to lose their culture (and likely positions of cultural, religious and political leadership) to the cultural blob that is the Federation.  Both found enough middle ground to eventually merge and create the Caldari ideal as it is today.

This is a tenuous alliance at best, and Im sure it ebbs and flows.  Heth seems a waxing of the "Caldari people first!" extreme versus the old "whats good for the megacorps is good for the Caldari".  Its likely gone back and forth over the course of its history.

If Caldari culture seems conflicted a lot of times, I think thats more realistic, not less.

[NISYN Aelisha]

I think the reason people have a hard time conceptualizing the State in a lot of ways its a marriage between two rather divergent forces.

The "State" was created by megacorps who likely simply wanted more profit (cus thats what theyre designed to do, at least initially), and were willing to go to extremes to get it, who allied with Caldari conservatives and populists who didn't want to lose their culture (and likely positions of cultural, religious and political leadership) to the cultural blob that is the Federation.  Both found enough middle ground to eventually merge and create the Caldari ideal as it is today.

This is a tenuous alliance at best, and I'm sure it ebbs and flows.  Heth seems a waxing of the "Caldari people first!" extreme versus the old "whats good for the megacorps is good for the Caldari".  Its likely gone back and forth over the course of its history.

If Caldari culture seems conflicted a lot of times, I think thats more realistic, not less.

Completely agreed.  Even the Amarr have a form of institutionalised 'boat rocking' in the form of the reclaiming - as PF mentions the Reclaiming catalyzes their social and economic structures by the addition of traits deemed useful to the whole - a more thorough and ethically questionable practice, but one that highlights even the most staid and static power in the cluster needs a bit of a diversity kick (on it's own terms). 

As applies to the State, this waxing and waning of the two sides (society for the economy, the economy as society) represents their particular brand of cultural evolution - if the State was just a business conglomerate, they would have gone the direction of the Serpentis or Cartel a long time ago, tacking on a social structure that suits only the mega corporate elite.  As a political or social paradigm gains primacy, it's flaws slowly become known to even the least educated of it's citizens.  To avoid revolt or recognition of this, by accident or design, the system flexes within the bounds acceptable to the mass of society; attempting to stay within the bounds of what people find acceptable enough to not find risking their livelihoods or lives in revolt.  The four empires represent the most successful of these paradigms so far (though the pirate communities definitely have a claim to the 'it works' model with up to a hundred or more years of existence in many cases), but that isn't to say they are 'perfect systems'.  We have a long way to go before the stress-pressure seen in all four is truly tested and one or more may not survive that test.  Until then, I see all four empires flexing in their own ways to try and remain stable.

[Gesakaarin]

Well, the Megacorps have always appeared to function like any authoritarian "single party" system: a degree of repression is to an extent accepted so long as they are also able to provide things like economic prosperity and opportunity; security; and stability. Nationalism isn't their only claim to legitimacy although it's probably an important aspect. The reason I think the CPD has such a wide base of support currently is that recession lead to a loss of faith in the corporations which Heth was able to exploit through his vision of a, "New Meritocracy." (Which to me seems to conjure up a line that the current State has "lost its way" and the CPD is seeking a "return" to how the State was during war and secession with the Federation).

As for the reasons behind the formation of the State I still hold that it was due to:

1. The establishment of Caldari colonies after the reverse engineering of the VH-451 gate.
2. Those colonies being established primarily through private Caldari firms and ventures.
3. Those private colonial firms merging into what became Caldari Megas.
4. Friction between Caldari Megas and colonies and what became the Federated Union of Gallente Prime.

I think it just boiled down to Caldari Megas and colonies having preferred their own autonomy and independence of action when it came down to it. Certainly not unsurprising for the six seceding Megas at the time to set their media and PR machines running to create popular support for an "Independent Caldari State" in an atmosphere where the Federation might have been seen as an undue interference in the lives of Caldari colonials. It might have been then that the modern concepts of "Being Caldari" were laid down and defined in popular Megacorp funded programs, media and literature.

[Lithium Flower]

Gottii, both these concepts depict a surface situation around the State. From my point of view, people follow not dictated doctrines like that, but rather their traditions, their mentality. They take ideas from old stories, that are passed through generations, customs, merits and values of parents. And the core of Caldari mentality is following interests of community and self sacrifice for greater good instead of following personal goals. The nation and megacorporation are both communities that a Caldari citizen belongs to. People from above tell him to work for megacorp, and he will do it. People from above tell him to work for Caldari people, and he will do it as well.

Gesakaarin, I can't agree that they function like "single party" system. The system of parties together with democracy was discarded back when Caldari seceded. Typical single party systems that we know, were Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, etc. The government is dominated by one party, and in order to get power, you have to get into party first. You have to follow party rules, and the country have to support and fund this party. Caldari get rid of all of it. Of parties, of government, of funding all these systems. Although my character would jump on you to slit your throat if you say this, from my point of view, Caldari State is a real anarchy.

What we see now, is an incipient government system. Heth, who are trying to unite all Caldari, planted a sprout of this government, that we can see as a position of Executor, CPD and Provists. It would be interesting to see what this will grow into in like a hundred of years. If there won't be external or internal disturbances, most probably position of Executor will turn into proper place of a head of the state, in a form like president or emperor. And of course, CPD will grow into a strong apparatus of officials, who will penetrate most levels of corporate life. But the most marvelous part will be, that all this new system would be meritocratic. Imagine yourself passing exams to become... a president. A real strong meritocratic government, an utopia, that is unachievable in our world, because politicians won't give their power away. Right now in most countries political parties hold power, they can manipulate peoples through media to make votes, but with real meritocratic system they will lose everything.

There may be a problem, when a minority of Caldari will see this new sprouting government system, that they are afraid of, because once they were already under another government: one of Gallente Federation, and they had to fight it. But Heth's politics, where he is aware of it or not, is already fighting that, pronouncing gallentes as enemies, and thus distancing from them.

[Gesakaarin]

Gesakaarin, I can't agree that they function like "single party" system. The system of parties together with democracy was discarded back when Caldari seceded. Typical single party systems that we know, were Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, etc. The government is dominated by one party, and in order to get power, you have to get into party first. You have to follow party rules, and the country have to support and fund this party. Caldari get rid of all of it. Of parties, of government, of funding all these systems. Although my character would jump on you to slit your throat if you say this, from my point of view, Caldari State is a real anarchy.

The analogy was not meant to imply any parallels between past ideology but purely on the fact that each Megacorporation is ruled by its board of directors and the legitimacy of that rule - even if by modern standards it might be seen as repressive - is purely on the basis that the Megacorporation provides tangible benefits to its employees. The rise of the CPD and its wide based support appears to be due to a loss of legitimacy to power of Megacorp. executives due to recession and the belief that advancement was no longer meritocratic but rather through nepotism and corruption.

I do agree generally with the rest of your thoughts and I think what always makes the Caldari interesting however is just the sheer range of opinions and points of friction and conflict that Heth and the CPD have shown to exist in the State. As for the future, who knows, I don't think the corporate elite outside of Kaalakiota (Hell, maybe even in KK) are willing to cede their power and prestige without resistance. 

[Lithium Flower]

Oh, Im pretty sure both KK and other megacorps will throw rotten tomatoes (and not only tomatoes, but also something, well, more explosive) to those, who will try to force new government over them. But I think it will eventually be done, not by force, but rather by slow evolution through optimization of what they have now.

[Horatius Caul]

On the purely genetic differences between Deteis and Civire: weren't the Deteis the only ones with Tube Child backgrounds?

Could it be that the state has effectively bred an executive and a worker caste?