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Author Topic: Evolution of Amarrian Religions - Updated  (Read 26314 times)

Louella Dougans

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Evolution of Amarrian Religions - Updated
« on: 02 May 2010, 01:38 »



Dates of splits:

Khanid Cults are from somewhere before space travel.

Tetrimon is from when the Mad Emperor and the Moral Reforms started, at the dawn of Amarr space travel.

Ammatar Church is from when the Ammatar came about. Somewhere between the Amarr invasion and the establishment of the Mandate.

Space Nuns, hurr.

Sani Sabik, is ancient, from before Amarr space travel started.

Evil Space Nuns, lolz.

Takmahl, is a Sani Sabik offshoot, from the start of Amarr Space travel.

Blood Raiders are an offshoot of Sani Sabik, with possible Takmahl influence. Date is unknown.

Blood Sephrim - a recent offshoot from Blood Raiders.

Flame of Peace is a recent cult, mentioned in a mission.

Equilibrium of Mankind comes shortly after Amarr space travel. Seekers of a Silent Paradise are an offshoot.

Kernherism is an Avetatist-Tothist offshoot of Reformist Amarr, which is a heresy. Kernherism may be the most dangerous heresy to have appeared in recent times.


Sources:
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Equilibrium_of_Mankind
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Sani_Sabik
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=City_of_God
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Zaragram_II
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=The_Cult_of_Tetrimon_%28Chronicle%29
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Order_of_St._Tetrimon
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Khanid_(bloodline)#Zealots
https://www.eveonline.com/article/orthodox-amarr-faith-increasingly-supplanting-ammatar-church - Ammatar Church mention
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/Amarr_COSMOS_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v1.2.pdf

https://www.eveonline.com/article/new-organisation-emerges-in-empire-outskirts - Blood Sephrim mention
https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=413638 - post by Blood Sephrim leader



Original post below
[spoiler]
Quote from: Kathryn Dougans
Dates of splits:

Khanid Cults are from somewhere before space travel.

Tetrimon is from when the Mad Emperor and the Moral Reforms started.

Ammatar Church is from when the Ammatar came about, naturally.

Space Nuns, hurr.


Sani Sabik, is ancient, from before Amarr space travel started.

Takmahl, I've put at around the same time as the Mad Emperor which is shortly after Amarr Space travel started, and about the same time as Tetrimon and the Moral Reforms began.

Blood Raiders I've put as an offshoot of Sani Sabik, with possible Takmahl influence. Date is unknown, but is several hundred years, I think.

Blood Sephrim - a recent offshoot from Blood Raiders.

Flame of Peace is a recent cult, mentioned in a mission.

Equilibrium of Mankind, is problematic. The background mentions things like "5000 years ago" which would be before Amarr space travel, so I've put that as a "??" for origin.

Sources:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Equilibrium_of_Mankind
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Sani_Sabik
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/City_of_God
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Zaragram_II
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/The_Cult_of_Tetrimon_%28Chronicle%29
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Khanid#Zealots
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3377&tid=2 - Ammatar Church mention
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/Amarr_COSMOS_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v1.2.pdf

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=413638 - Blood Sephrim
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: 22 Dec 2018, 04:56 by Louella Dougans »
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #1 on: 02 May 2010, 03:27 »

Only problem for me in there is the fact that the 'Amarr mainstream' consists of so many different variations of worship from region to region, planet to planet, from family to family, that in itself you can find more variation than in these cults that have come out to the fore.

I think that there is a few things that set these cults aside, it is because they differ in few dogmatic issues.

Let me be a bit more clear.

Mainstream:
There is one God.
God is good.
Emperor is the Viceroy of God.
Emperor leads the Empire from the Golden Throne.
Slavery is a way to keep those that would make poor choices spiritually from making them.
Slavery is a way to do penance in the eyes of God.
Inheritance of Sin.
Sanctity of Flesh.
Reclaiming is a sacred duty given to His people by God.
The Holy Amarrian Empire was created to cultivate the spirit of Man.
The Amarrians are the Chosen of God. (linked to inheritance of sin, sanctity of flesh.)

Khanid cults:
King Khanid is the true viceroy of God.
Flesh in itself is not sacred, it is what you do it is that matters in the eyes of God (cyberknights.)

Sani Sabik:
There is no Sin.
The weak are there to uplift the few to greatness.

Equilibrium of Mankind:
There is no Reclaiming, those not dedicated to God should be destroyed.

Tetrimon:
Emperor is the viceroy of God, he should lead the Empire with the council of Apostles, not as a despot.

Takhmahl:
All are created by God, as equal, all are divine.
The shape given by God at birth is not important you can mold it to your will through science/religion.

Keep in mind that these are just rough representations of the cults in question as perceived by me, these 'guidelines' here are just here to make it more clear to you that there is quite a lot of similarities between these different cults that have stemmed off the mainstream of the Amarrian religion and they really do not differ that much from the mainstream in a dogmatic sense.

In practise, even a small change in the dogma can turn a religious Amarrian into a blood drinking ghoul who praises the Red God so that he would gain the strength to be closer to God.

I would like to thank Lou for putting together this visual representation as a guideline for those interested in the Amarrian religion and its cults.

Of course as a discussion about these things there are really no rights or wrongs, partially because of the fact that CCP has not given that much information on the Amarrian religion to the playerbase, partially because every Amarrian roleplayer has touched on these subjects when playing their character and has made their own piecemeal representation of religion that they themselves subject their characters to.

Anyhoos, brekkies ahoy!
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Casiella

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #2 on: 02 May 2010, 12:58 »

Interesting. I thought the Takmahl were an ancient civilization contemporary with the Sleepers and Yan Jung, or have I confused them with someone else?
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #3 on: 02 May 2010, 13:02 »

There was the Talocan, which may be? contemporary with Sleepers. I don't know about the timescale for those two though.

According to the Gallente cosmos background stuff, Yan Jung were original colonists, so may be a lot older than either.
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Casiella

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #4 on: 02 May 2010, 13:05 »

Talocan, that's who I had in mind. Thank you.

So, apart from the 'space nuns', do any of the variations listed above have strong emphasis on what we'd today call "social justice" or, in some religious traditions, "the social Gospel"? I'm thinking here of something vaguely in line with the Sisters of EVE.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #5 on: 02 May 2010, 13:12 »

Catch all would be "A Khanid Cult does that"

Of the listed variations, there really, really isn't much information about them at all. Which makes it hard to say.
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Ulphus

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #6 on: 02 May 2010, 15:12 »

Please note that I know practically nothing about the Amarr religions...

Sani Sabik:
There is no Sin.

I find that difficult to rationalise. Do you mean that they don't accept the traditional Amarrian definition of Sin (but there are still things that they consider as taboo or out of bounds) or that there really are no behaviors proscribed by their religion?
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #7 on: 03 May 2010, 04:24 »

Personally I believe that it is more of the former than the latter.

All religions have taboos and ways of doing things, if you break those taboos or go against the grain in doing things you usually will be considered to break the will of the divinity that is being worshipped.

I doubt that the Sani Sabik would go around waving pitchforks and torches if someone refused to take an opportunity to seize more power when possible they would seek to seize it for themselves instead, there is probably a very strong survival of the fittest thing going on in their circles on many different levels which makes the machinations of the Holders seem mild in comparison.

Of course as a cult it is quite varied and probably littered with different personality cults that are more or less shortlived.
Just look at the Blood Raiders, a personality cult based on the Sani Sabik dogma.
There are several differences between the Blood Raiders and the mainstream Amarr religion.
They believe that the blood of clones is of the purest kind, therefore removing the aspect of Amarrian religion for Amarrians from the whole thing, opening it up for all the different bloodlines.
Their views on slavery are quite a lot harsher than for the mainstream religion, basically using slaves as a workforce and a blood farm to satisfy their religious need for blood.
Since the need for blood is so essential in their cult, they have replaced a lot of the spiritual aspects of the Amarrian religion with just the act of acquiring blood and sacrificing it to their God. When you have such a central and overriding aspect of a religion then basically for them the only Sin would be inability to acquire more blood to their God.

Nothing else matters.
Only blood.

Of course you have the fundies that spend their days hunting for more and more blood to the altar (and bathing) and the regular folk that go to the temple on sundays to spill blood on the altar which they buy from the vending machine in the front.

So as you might notice, religion is filled with so many different aspects and personal nuances so that you could spend your time talking about it until the cows come home.
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Rodj Blake

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #8 on: 04 May 2010, 08:42 »

Talocan, that's who I had in mind. Thank you.

So, apart from the 'space nuns', do any of the variations listed above have strong emphasis on what we'd today call "social justice" or, in some religious traditions, "the social Gospel"? I'm thinking here of something vaguely in line with the Sisters of EVE.

Social justice might be the province of The Speakers of Truth.

It's possible that there are hundreds of officially recognised religious orders (The Speakers, the Ammatar Church and the Cult of Catechization are three examples from the PF) so there's probably at least a few that focus on charitable works.
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Casiella

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #9 on: 10 May 2010, 18:26 »

Other than the brief mentions of the Ammatar turning in greater numbers to the core Amarr rites, do we know anything else about that church? Does RL have an appropriate analogue to the various churches / rites within the Amarr religion? I'm not Catholic, but it strikes me that this is probably modelled on at least some parts of that tradition. I don't know about other faith traditions in this vein, though.
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scagga

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #10 on: 13 May 2010, 09:01 »

The Ammatar church may have predated the 'Ammatar', in that it may have evolved from a Nefantar adaptation of the Amarrian faith prior to the 23216 uprising, when Amarr ruled over what is now the Minmatar republic.

I quote the relevant statement from the Ammatar chronicle:

Quote
The Ammatars are descendants of Minmatars that collaborated with the Amarrians during the latter occupation of the Minmatar worlds.


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Louella Dougans

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions - Updated
« Reply #11 on: 18 Feb 2013, 15:51 »

Updated with the new information on the evelopedia.

An interesting point, is to note the influence of SPACE TRAVEL on Amarr religions.

Prior to space travel, there were, on Athra, the Orthodox Amarr church, some Khanid cults, and the Sani sabik heretics.

Within a very short period of time, a century or two, i.e. probably within the lifetime of an upper Holder, there sprang up the EoM, and the Takmahl, and the Cult of Tetrimon.

The significance of Space Travel is not to be overlooked.
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Safai

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions - Updated
« Reply #12 on: 18 Feb 2013, 16:02 »

Aw sweet, SASPR made it on the timeline! \o/
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Horatius Caul

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions - Updated
« Reply #13 on: 18 Feb 2013, 16:28 »

Prior to space travel, there were, on Athra, the Orthodox Amarr church, some Khanid cults, and the Sani sabik heretics.

Within a very short period of time, a century or two, i.e. probably within the lifetime of an upper Holder, there sprang up the EoM, and the Takmahl, and the Cult of Tetrimon.
This article on the Evelopedia does explain that somewhat - suggesting that the Empire had difficulty policing religious tendencies in a rapidly expanding domain.

However, it also makes it quite clear that the Takmahl never existed in the Empire, but that they were founded by Sabik fugitives.

Jikahr

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Re: Evolution of Amarrian Religions
« Reply #14 on: 06 Sep 2014, 10:56 »

Personally I believe that it is more of the former than the latter.

All religions have taboos and ways of doing things, if you break those taboos or go against the grain in doing things you usually will be considered to break the will of the divinity that is being worshipped.

I doubt that the Sani Sabik would go around waving pitchforks and torches if someone refused to take an opportunity to seize more power when possible they would seek to seize it for themselves instead, there is probably a very strong survival of the fittest thing going on in their circles on many different levels which makes the machinations of the Holders seem mild in comparison.

Of course as a cult it is quite varied and probably littered with different personality cults that are more or less shortlived.
Just look at the Blood Raiders, a personality cult based on the Sani Sabik dogma.
There are several differences between the Blood Raiders and the mainstream Amarr religion.
They believe that the blood of clones is of the purest kind, therefore removing the aspect of Amarrian religion for Amarrians from the whole thing, opening it up for all the different bloodlines.
Their views on slavery are quite a lot harsher than for the mainstream religion, basically using slaves as a workforce and a blood farm to satisfy their religious need for blood.
Since the need for blood is so essential in their cult, they have replaced a lot of the spiritual aspects of the Amarrian religion with just the act of acquiring blood and sacrificing it to their God. When you have such a central and overriding aspect of a religion then basically for them the only Sin would be inability to acquire more blood to their God.

Nothing else matters.
Only blood.

Of course you have the fundies that spend their days hunting for more and more blood to the altar (and bathing) and the regular folk that go to the temple on sundays to spill blood on the altar which they buy from the vending machine in the front.

So as you might notice, religion is filled with so many different aspects and personal nuances so that you could spend your time talking about it until the cows come home.

I'm not sure it's true that the Sani Sabik don't believe in sin.

I think where the main difference between Sani Sabik is the belief that some people are selected savants (i.e. supermen), and everyone else is destined to serve them. Even a person of low birth, such as a commoner, could potentially be one of these savants.

On the other hand, the Amarrians believe that greatness can only be passed down through one's lineage/ heritage.

So if Orthodox Amarrian was compared to Roman Catholicism, then Sani Sabik would be like Protestantism. Instead of a Catholic priest reading to his audience in Latin from a chained book, Martin Luther would be telling everyone they can own and read their own Gutenberg Bibles in German.

The Sani Sabik religion started out as a moderate departure, and then it mutated and just became weirder and weirder.

There are thousands of different sects of Sani Sabik, from the mild Gallente social circle of sharing your own blood voluntarily with your own friends, to the Blood Raider's extreme use of force and kidnapping to extract blood from others.

I think that there is a hedonistic sect of the Blood Raiders, and they probably believe that their sins are being washed away, but some BR's such as Naupilius see Sani Sabik and the BRs as merely a means of reinforcing of the lost elements of Orthodox Amarrian faith.

For me, the danger Sani Sabik posed to the Empire wasn't the use of blood in their rituals, it was because Sani Sabik would undermine the social order of Amarr Feudalism. Now, EVERY man (or woman) could potentially be ruler. 
« Last Edit: 06 Sep 2014, 11:07 by Jikahr »
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