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[Davien Kaahtt]

I guess... the game is what you make of it.
I started Eve in 2004. by around 2006, my computer couldn't handle the game very well, and I turned to autopilot space trucking and a bunch of roleplay to keep myself happy. Eve, for me, turned into an expensive chat room. As fun as Eve was for me, almost none of it was because of actual game play.

What Roberts is doing with SC is bringing back the epic space shooter, and adding to it many of the amazing immersive things Eve promised, but failed to deliver a decade into its existence. Sure, the art directing is weak, and yeah, the back story is generic, but guys... Spaceships!

How many of you dreamed of being Kirk, Spock, Scotty, etc? Whom of you can say you don't secretly want to be Adama or Starbuck? Yes, right now its WWII pewpew fluf, but in a year or less, it will be so much more. At some point, it will be whatever you want it to be. If you want to sit in a fourm and roleplay, by all means, please do. If you want to jump in the commander station or one of the turrets of my bomber while I make a run on a hardened target, more power to you.

This game, even in its infancy, brings me back to my childhood. The utter joy experienced behind a flight stick combating the evil Kilrathi, or the Shivans. Trucking loads of luxury foods to New Detroit, or shooting gate hackers in liberty space. Setting off from Arth to discover the secret between the galactic supernova. I'm not saying that SC will be the be-all end-all videogame, but bit by bit, its becoming the game I've always wanted. Perhaps in a few years, they'll have a large, procedurally generated universe, with planetary exploration, but for right now, considering its *just* a dogfighting engine, I am content.

Eve, as a game, became too expensive and too boring for me. I'm not saying you should leave her for SC, I'm saying give SC a few hours of your time. Don't worry about coming up with a back story and character--Just jump in and have fun... I'll save a seat for ya'll.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

How many of you dreamed of being Kirk, Spock, Scotty, etc? Whom of you can say you don't secretly want to be Adama or Starbuck?

I can barely concieve of something I want less in my MMO or roleplay experience then emulating characters from mainstream fiction, to be honest.

Pitches for games that consist of, "Now you can be just like X in X!" are the best possible way to send me running for the hills. I've never seen one that sells itself based on nostalgia and cool flashy things rather then their own distinctiveness and substance that have worked out for me in the long term.

[Lyn Farel]

How many of you dreamed of being Kirk, Spock, Scotty, etc? Whom of you can say you don't secretly want to be Adama or Starbuck

That's the problem. I dislike Star Trek generally and I hate BSG - even if like a lot of people I got hooked by the series... To the point of sighing in frustration when I saw what probably is the biggest bullshity and vapid end I have ever seen. To then slowly realizing that BSG is nothing more than drama with crocodile tears and poorly executed reflections on religion and stuff with a convoluted plot that went nowhere because the writers didn't foresee at first where they wanted it to go..

Well no, I agree with Gwen. It bothered me a lot a few months ago, and got on the back of my mind for a moment lately because I got excited by the gameplay and what it is promising to be, but... Well yeah.

You see, the thing is that it brings me back to my childhood and the countless hours I have spent on the old space sims too. But I never played wing commander. I played the X-Wing and Tie-Fighter series, and then XWA.

Those had great stories, great universe, and great plot. Especially the last one.

Which makes me say though that even with pulp and bland elements in the lore, I think you can still as a roleplayer play on a few facets of the lore that are actually interesting, and/or make them so. I was for example thinking about all the Star Wars lore, be it novels, comics, films, video games, etc. Considering that they tried to cater to the biggest audience possible through all their products, well, the produced a lot of shit as well as a few gems, and most of those stories were completely different in their feel as well as the universe that was presented, even if it shared the same base universe. Just, the one that comes to my mind right now is a comics (Knight of the Old Republic, though not the KOTOR of the old Tales of the Jedi, but the new one with Zayne Carrick), which managed to create a vastly unique perspective on the universe which is what i'm looking for in every setting that often deals with the pulp quite heavily.

I mean, seriously, the base universe of the first star wars trilogy is a bit weird and not very interesting at first (bare the rusted WW2/fantasy anachronism in space), I mean, with space wizards and all. Yet that first saga manages to tell a powerful story.

Well, that's my hope, but mhh.. Yeah, that's just that. A dream.

[Silas Vitalia]

The thing for me though is that this is the game that I've always wanted, since I was a little kid and first played Xwing or Wing Commander and then first person shooters.

I wanted some sort of unbelievable game where I could fly a fighter, then board another ship and pew pew, or be a captain on a bridge of a huge ship in an epic battle.

I'm willing to put up with the terrible IP to do those things at this point.


Also interestingly enough, some of the early 'wing commander' novels were actually pretty damn good.

Highly, highly recommend 'fleet action' by William R. Forstchen and 'End Run' as well for about perfect pulp ww2 in space fleet novels.

http://www.amazon.com/End-Wing-Commander-William-Forstchen/dp/067172200X

http://www.amazon.com/Fleet-Action-Commander-William-Forstchen/dp/0671722115/ref=pd_sim_b_1/177-7137769-9378224?ie=UTF8&refRID=10KE8T7K6Q372MEQ7KBK

Lyn I'm sorry you never got Wing Commander, at the time it was just lightyears ahead of other games.  Interactive, cut scenes, story driven campaigns, it was just the best thing ever. And the damn technical manual that came with the game was just so rad.   Even if the IP was not. 

[Lyn Farel]

I don't care much tbh. Wing Commander may have been a precursor, but it paved the way for X-Wing (2 years later only) and Tie Fighter, and then the glorious XWA, so.. And believe me, I have spent hours, years on those as a kid. Even if I actually never finished the two first ones, because they were fucking hardcore (especially X-Wing). I kept playing them again and again. And the IP was still amazing and not tainted by the prelogy yet and all the bullshit that followed. The only things that existed at that time were Zahn's novels and Tales of the Jedi...

Also, it was a time when Lucasarts still actually cared about the games they made. Not only I had the game manuals (old game manuals, the manuals that were already like 50 pages long), but also the little novellas they cared to write and include within the box. They were delicately crafted by what clearly were fans of the lore, presenting everything : a lot of pieces on the lore of the rebellion or the empire, their organization, technical sheet for ships, and little stories. I sitll have them, even if they are literally falling apart. They were like my scriptures when I was a kid because I didn't have the more complete tabletop sourcebooks where they got all their inspiration... What makes me say they cared, it's not so much that since a lot of games had a lot of written stuff included (like the first homeworld, dat huge lorebook), but the little survey that was inserted in the books. The survey was actually asking the players to send it back to them with their answers, asking things like if they liked the story, if they liked the fact that they included a lot of expanded universe references for their fans, if they wanted to see more of that in their future games...

But i'm rambling.

Maybe as backer we could actually go to CIG and tells them what annoys us with the story. We backed their project, and there sure wasnt any lore back then when I did. Not in the first weeks. I never asked for that shit they are serving up. I mean, i'm not actually expecting them to change it, and not a lot more to flesh it out more with deeper stuff, but well... One can only try and it costs nothing.

[Davlos]

I don't care much tbh. Wing Commander may have been a precursor, but it paved the way for X-Wing (2 years later only) and Tie Fighter, and then the glorious XWA, so.. And believe me, I have spent hours, years on those as a kid. Even if I actually never finished the two first ones, because they were fucking hardcore (especially X-Wing). I kept playing them again and again. And the IP was still amazing and not tainted by the prelogy yet and all the bullshit that followed. The only things that existed at that time were Zahn's novels and Tales of the Jedi...

Also, it was a time when Lucasarts still actually cared about the games they made. Not only I had the game manuals (old game manuals, the manuals that were already like 50 pages long), but also the little novellas they cared to write and include within the box. They were delicately crafted by what clearly were fans of the lore, presenting everything : a lot of pieces on the lore of the rebellion or the empire, their organization, technical sheet for ships, and little stories. I sitll have them, even if they are literally falling apart. They were like my scriptures when I was a kid because I didn't have the more complete tabletop sourcebooks where they got all their inspiration... What makes me say they cared, it's not so much that since a lot of games had a lot of written stuff included (like the first homeworld, dat huge lorebook), but the little survey that was inserted in the books. The survey was actually asking the players to send it back to them with their answers, asking things like if they liked the story, if they liked the fact that they included a lot of expanded universe references for their fans, if they wanted to see more of that in their future games...

But i'm rambling.

Maybe as backer we could actually go to CIG and tells them what annoys us with the story. We backed their project, and there sure wasnt any lore back then when I did. Not in the first weeks. I never asked for that shit they are serving up. I mean, i'm not actually expecting them to change it, and not a lot more to flesh it out more with deeper stuff, but well... One can only try and it costs nothing.

There's nothing to stop you from going to CIG's forums and ask them about it. They have a dedicated thread which devs frequent and actually answer questions.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/95618/star-citizen-lore#latest

[Pieter Tuulinen]

That'd be exciting. "Guys, why'd you phone in the writing and backstory?"

[Davlos]

I've not been keeping track of lore development. What's happened?

[Gwen Ikiryo]

I should clarify that I don't think the lore is terrible. It's mostly inoffensive. It's just really unimaginative. Space America has to deal with Space Seperatists in an allegory for Space Rome while setting stays as far away from any sort of compelling Sci Fi concept (AI, Transhumanism, Aliens that aren't just basically humans in masks) as possible, etc.

[Lyn Farel]

Yes, exactly.

In any case i'm waiting a lot for Squadron 42 alpha, that should theorically offer a better snapshot of what the feel and the lore really will be. Even now it's rather hard to tell, we may have a certain amount of lore datadump, but we still haven't obviously any hint on the script, scenario, atmosphere, and where they want to go with all that...

I don't care much tbh. Wing Commander may have been a precursor, but it paved the way for X-Wing (2 years later only) and Tie Fighter, and then the glorious XWA, so.. And believe me, I have spent hours, years on those as a kid. Even if I actually never finished the two first ones, because they were fucking hardcore (especially X-Wing). I kept playing them again and again. And the IP was still amazing and not tainted by the prelogy yet and all the bullshit that followed. The only things that existed at that time were Zahn's novels and Tales of the Jedi...

Also, it was a time when Lucasarts still actually cared about the games they made. Not only I had the game manuals (old game manuals, the manuals that were already like 50 pages long), but also the little novellas they cared to write and include within the box. They were delicately crafted by what clearly were fans of the lore, presenting everything : a lot of pieces on the lore of the rebellion or the empire, their organization, technical sheet for ships, and little stories. I sitll have them, even if they are literally falling apart. They were like my scriptures when I was a kid because I didn't have the more complete tabletop sourcebooks where they got all their inspiration... What makes me say they cared, it's not so much that since a lot of games had a lot of written stuff included (like the first homeworld, dat huge lorebook), but the little survey that was inserted in the books. The survey was actually asking the players to send it back to them with their answers, asking things like if they liked the story, if they liked the fact that they included a lot of expanded universe references for their fans, if they wanted to see more of that in their future games...

But i'm rambling.

Maybe as backer we could actually go to CIG and tells them what annoys us with the story. We backed their project, and there sure wasnt any lore back then when I did. Not in the first weeks. I never asked for that shit they are serving up. I mean, i'm not actually expecting them to change it, and not a lot more to flesh it out more with deeper stuff, but well... One can only try and it costs nothing.

There's nothing to stop you from going to CIG's forums and ask them about it. They have a dedicated thread which devs frequent and actually answer questions.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/95618/star-citizen-lore#latest

The thing is... I'm still trying to wrap my head around how... well... to ask the question without coming confrontational. 

[Gwen Ikiryo]

In any case i'm waiting a lot for Squadron 42 alpha, that should theorically offer a better snapshot of what the feel and the lore really will be. Even now it's rather hard to tell, we may have a certain amount of lore datadump, but we still haven't obviously any hint on the script, scenario, atmosphere, and where they want to go with all that...

Actually, Chris Roberts got drunk and spoiled the entire plot.

http://www.blastr.com/2015-3-18/creator-chris-roberts-talks-star-citizen-ambitious-space-sim-steroids

[Lyn Farel]

The worse thing with him is that he got it right when he says everything passes through a believable world and immersion, and then presents his supposedly living and inspiring worlds... He thinks right but has awfully trite/bland tastes.

( And hiring top cinema concept artists ? Plu-ease....)

[Samira Kernher]

( And hiring top cinema concept artists ? Plu-ease....)

Well, they did get the guy who did the computer interface in the Iron Man movies to do the UI for SC...


And Gwen, I remember when you were defending SC's lore to me when I was complaining about it. Apparently you've come around.

[Davlos]

The worse thing with him is that he got it right when he says everything passes through a believable world and immersion, and then presents his supposedly living and inspiring worlds... He thinks right but has awfully trite/bland tastes.

( And hiring top cinema concept artists ? Plu-ease....)

In terms of establishing a believable world and coming up with a feel for it though, I think Chris Roberts nailed it pretty well with the ship commercials. The Mustang commercial felt like a Ford Mustang one, the 300i series felt like a Ferrari/McClaren one, and the Freelancer was basically a Dodge truck commercial.

If I'm to speculate, Chris Roberts probably wants to cut down on the outlandish bits in the game world so keep a broad appeal, and let the players come up with the stories for themselves. We can probably hope for a Herko Kerghans figure to emerge from that community.

[purple]

Herko Kerghans figure to emerge from that community.

The Herko we deserve.