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[Ember Vykos]

I just read Andy's post here and on EVE-o asking for CCP to throw us a bone in regards to the storyline. My question is why wait for CCP? We know what happened in the books. We're freakin capsuleers so it would be reasonable to assume that those of us with strong ties to a certain faction would know what's actually going on without the powers on high feeding it to us with a spoon.

I know this raises a lot of issue with the whole 'but what if CCP suddenly releases everything finally' argument, but really...it's fucking CCP. We all know they aren't going to, and if they finally do get their heads out of their asses and mess everything we've done without them up....well what's new?

As nice as it would be to have some news and knowledge about the things that happen in the books I really don't see it happening anytime soon. So why don't we as players just take it and run with it?

[Kybernetes Moros]

I always thought the better route would be to ignore the books and make our own news (even just really brief one-paragraph bits to spur discussion) and events, honestly.

It does invite a bit of a risk for strawman news and the kind trite, repetitive events for which I have a vested distaste (kidnapping #9248, murder #1303, etc.), but ideally that could be avoided. Beats a void, in any case.

[Myyona]

There are a lot of issues with this, and many of them are illogical and immersion breaking.

Take as simple example as the Enheduanni; an extremely powerful and secret entity. How can they be secret and/or powerful if everybody knows about their existence anyhow?

That there is a Sleeper/Architect creation in the mind of Empress Sarum influencing her mind? If such knowledge came out it would (should) seriously destabilize the mightiest Empire in the star cluster.

In fact, many of these extremely world changing pieces of knowledge are even stated to be so well kept secret that only a handful of people, maybe just one, know about it. Who want to be the Special Snowflake that suddenly knows all this stuff? Not to mention, have no supporting evidence to present either.

[Kybernetes Moros]

Yep, there are a lot of very awkward points in the books -- hence my general eagerness to keep them comfortably away from RP.

[Ember Vykos]

I'm not saying we know everything. Just the stuff within reason. So Empress Jamyl has a whatever in her brain. That probably wouldn't get out, and for good reason. However, the big fight at the end of Templar One should be fairly well known. I mean it would almost be impossible to hush something like that up for no one to know about. Or Ishukone releasing Insorum. Sure that's a bit that not everyone would know and some would surely be skeptical about, but at the same time someone should have heard about it by now. As hard as it is to keep secrets with our current technology I have my doubts about it being so easy in EVE given the vast technological improvements. That is a bit immersion breaking also. At least to me it is.

[Gottii]

I'm guessing CCP is well aware of how "ugh" a lot of those books are for storyline and such.  In fact I'm sure of it.  But TonyG had the rights to write two books, so they had to go with it.

I'm betting TonyGs stuff will be quietly but firmly placed in a narrative closet, and never really spoken of again unless absolutely necessary.

[Ember Vykos]

Not all of it was bad. Even though he did shit all over PF.

[Kybernetes Moros]

Why would cherry-picking what is and isn't preposterous be preferable to forgetting about the mess entirely?

In other words, the books are a bit of a catastrophe. If CCP referred to them for the sake of it, I'd be astonished -- so while we might hear of some big fight somewhere or other, it's easy enough to make like it never happened and excise the books in their entirety.

[Merdaneth]

However, the big fight at the end of Templar One should be fairly well known. I mean it would almost be impossible to hush something like that up for no one to know about.

I go by IC sources. I haven't heard anything talk about this IC, so Merdaneth doesn't know about it. As someone who didn't read the books, I can say I only heard stuff about 'a Broker' here in OOC info, and never heard anyone mention him IC.

IC intel is pretty hard to get by naturally. Most people don't mention stuff like this IC for probably a myriad of reasons.

[Lyn Farel]

There are many issues that will not be avoided :

- As told above, who will be the special snowflake telling all that ? And if someone does, I do not even want to imagine the reactions, that would certainly be "lol lies give your sources" and the special snowflake to answer naively with quotes from the books themselves... That would be like quoting the chronicles IC-ly.

- Nobody shares the same views on that kind of parts of the PF. Most of us think the books are to be scratched from our minds (and I really do it myself). Some don't and will actually consider the contrary. By revealing that kind of thing you will go directly against the RP people considering that these novels never existed. Dramas and conflicts ensuing.

- Who will decide what is the meaning of all of these suppa sikrit stuff ? Who in the community will assume the role of feeding his interpretation of all the secret RP to all RPers ? Or a committee ? Backstage telling to everyone what RP is to use and what is the truth ? And that would already mean that all backstage agree on this. Utopia.

[Merdaneth]

As for progressing the storyline. We cannot directly *alter* or even create storylines related to NPC entities. The only thing we can do is alter other people's perceptions of the NPC stuff that is delivered to us by CCP.

That is an additional reason why I really dislike people using the wiki and such as objective unquestionable facts. To me its obvious that they do so because their players know that information comes from CCP. If want to reserve the right to convince people that the Day of Darkness never happened and was made up by some fanatics (in a similar vein that many people today deny certain historical events happened). If you do it repeatedly (and convincingly), then people will assume what you say is 'objectively true'.

[Myyona]

However, the big fight at the end of Templar One should be fairly well known.

Very true. But surprisingly little of the events happening in Templar One has been communicated from CCP to the people who have not read the book. Unlike The Empyrian Age, where CCP went to great lengths to make various land marks so people could see the remnants of the battles described in the book.

I know, "lack of resources", but the silence has been extreme. Except that trailer that touched a few of the elements from T1.

[Ember Vykos]

However, the big fight at the end of Templar One should be fairly well known. I mean it would almost be impossible to hush something like that up for no one to know about.

I go by IC sources. I haven't heard anything talk about this IC, so Merdaneth doesn't know about it. As someone who didn't read the books, I can say I only heard stuff about 'a Broker' here in OOC info, and never heard anyone mention him IC.

IC intel is pretty hard to get by naturally. Most people don't mention stuff like this IC for probably a myriad of reasons.

IC sources such as....what exactly? This is part of my point we don't really have any.

Why would cherry-picking what is and isn't preposterous be preferable to forgetting about the mess entirely?

In other words, the books are a bit of a catastrophe. If CCP referred to them for the sake of it, I'd be astonished -- so while we might hear of some big fight somewhere or other, it's easy enough to make like it never happened and excise the books in their entirety.

Like them or not the books have already been referenced partially so they're here to stay. TEA happened most of it is out already save for some bits. T-1 will be out about the same time or a little before DUST hits. You aren't getting rid of them so why not use them?

If the stuff in T-1 hasnt happened yet then fine I'll wait for when CCP releases it in IC news or however they decide to do it. Once DUST releases if they still haven't released any of the info from the book. I might just consider using it anyway and if you guys want to think Simca is a crazy nut then fuck it so be it.

[Kybernetes Moros]

Looks like you provide your own answer. "Why not use them?" "Because we don't know when this stuff happened, if it's happened yet, it's not necessarily common OOC knowledge since not nearly everybody cares about reading the books, and so on".

Is there any explicit gain in using the material? If you want to, go ahead -- I just don't see the point in lamenting TonyG's influence and then going out of the way to use his qriting that may be entirely unknown to others.

[Katrina Oniseki]

If the stuff in T-1 hasnt happened yet then fine I'll wait for when CCP releases it in IC news or however they decide to do it. Once DUST releases if they still haven't released any of the info from the book. I might just consider using it anyway and you you guys want to think Simca is a crazy nut then fuck it so be it.

Kat will be crazy too then. I'm tired of CCP's magic box of "You-Don't-Know-That-PF-Yet". Sick and tired of it.

Besides, everyone else is a nutcase. At least if CCP releases news articles down the road, Kat and Simca will be proven right and we can point and laugh at all who doubted us.