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[Silas Vitalia]

It's got to be pretty damn instant, as all of those m3 of planetary vehicles and cattle I can buy in station aren't being used by my pod. The baseliners use it.

It's all been pretty settled as to the conversions as well, with a few thousand ISK enough for an average planetsider to live a normal existence for a year or two.

1% of the 1% people, in rarity and in wealth.

That little frigate you buy on day one is worth more than your average planetsider will see in their entire lives.

[Valadeus]

It's got to be pretty damn instant, as all of those m3 of planetary vehicles and cattle I can buy in station aren't being used by my pod. The baseliners use it.

It's all been pretty settled as to the conversions as well, with a few thousand ISK enough for an average planetsider to live a normal existence for a year or two.

1% of the 1% people, in rarity and in wealth.

That little frigate you buy on day one is worth more than your average planetsider will see in their entire lives.

This pretty much sums up everything I've read.

[Silas Vitalia]

CONCORD is a problem for believability though.  Why are there independent capsuleers? Why in the hell would a restrictive autocracy like the Empire spend millions to train you and then say 'ok here are the keys, go have fun!'

It has to be a mandate of the Yulai accords or a mandate of the Jovians, or something... otherwise I highly doubt any capsuleers would be removed in any way from the military that trained them.

[Aldrith Shutaq]

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Baselining

This has been linked before, but it is extremely relevant to the current line of conversation.

[Victoria Stecker]

Back to a more abstract economic view, it looks like Concord essentially prints money. We blow shit up, they pay us. We run a mission, we get paid. Etc.

But where do they get the money? Are they in fact just printing it off? This is usually poor economic policy.

When mission agents pay us for doing whatever, are they paying us with ISK that Concord just gives them, or do they have to exchange their own currency to pay us?

So, theory: Concord does not simply print limitless amounts of isk. Concord was put together by the empires and is funded by the empires. Concord takes money from the empires, converts it into its new, universal currency for people who no longer acknowledge empire boundaries and cba to change out their money each time they cross a line.

Thus, there is an exchange system for ISK to [empire] currency. This exchange does not exist within the game interface, but given that mission agents can pay us, given that we have to pay isk for station services which must then be converted to their currency to pay for the labor that builds our ships, etc...

It just doesn't make sense for Concord and ISK to exist in a pure vacuum. There has to be an exchange to baseliner (or at least government) currency.

I'm not sure what I'm arguing anymore, does that make sense? bloody workday has scrambled mah brains.

[Morwen Lagann]

The problem with that, at the moment, is the fact that when a person comes a capsuleer, legally he dies.

They transfer the mind into a body and kill the old one.

Which in most societies means that the capsuleer has no inheritance or property, unless they had a business that was transferred to that new persona, which would probably have all kinds of nasty taxes involved by letting something be inherited by someone that is not real family.

Emphasis mine; this was new as of Incarna. It was never established as the case prior to that, and the general response was "That might be how it's done now, but back in my day..."

It was also pointed out that it was perfectly possible that Aura was just trolling you for a laugh, given she finds it hilarious the first time you get podded.

So for any characters created prior to Incarna? That's the player's choice, and you don't get to argue with that. Not to mention, it's a little on the excessively anal-retentive side of things to try and point that out IC anyway.

[lallara zhuul]

The problems with CONCORD are multitude and would take thread of its own, but basically it does not compute as anything else than a sand box for capsuleers that is a controlling mechanism and an indoctrination tool.

There may be parts of it that deal with the actual trade between the nations and between the planets and space, but to the capsuleers see a very small part of it.

I would gather that all the chronicles and EVElopedia are part of that controlling and indoctrination mechanism to make the capsuleers believe what the Empires want them to believe.

That baseliner linkie was quite revealing in the fact that it showed that none of the information that we have access to ever says 'no' to a capsuleer, pretty much all the information is about pandering the ego of the capsuleer and making sure that the capsuleer feels special and all powerful.

Which pretty much translates to an easily controllable capsuleer.

It's quite genius, and I think it is one of the things CCP consciously does.

It may be part of the PR, but it works IC as well.

[Aldrith Shutaq]

For the answers to our economic questions we're going to need to watch this thread:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Secure_Commerce_Commission

The SCC is the body that manages the space-based economy, capsuleer economy included. Here is a blurb on them from the CONCORD page:

Secure Commerce Commission
 
CONCORD contains a division called the Secure Commerce Commission which is jointly run by the major New Eden empires to ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment.
 
The Minmatar Republic and the Jove Empire once cooperated on a joint project to ensure the Secure Commerce Commission would act under strict codes of neutrality, similar to other empire-run institutions such as InterBus. These codes ensure the SCC keeps all dealings secure, but also secret, with no chance of government interference.
 

[Esna Pitoojee]

There are at least two instances I can think of off the bat in PF where people die/clone and retain their positions, wealth, etc...

One of them is an Amarr Holder.

And none of this is :TonyG: related in any way.

I honestly don't think we loose our national identities/rights when we become capsuleers. Become more regulated, yes - but not lose it all.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

What always struck me as amusing is if an Amarr could trace the development of their culture back to the initial settlement of their planet, they'd probably come to realise that they are descended from a bunch of heretics.

It's a minor tragedy that no character can ever find this out, beyond vague hints.

[Silas Vitalia]

What always struck me as amusing is if an Amarr could trace the development of their culture back to the initial settlement of their planet, they'd probably come to realise that they are descended from a bunch of heretics.

It's a minor tragedy that no character can ever find this out, beyond vague hints.

Heretics, or brave settlers fleeing religious persecution?

[Rodj Blake]

What always struck me as amusing is if an Amarr could trace the development of their culture back to the initial settlement of their planet, they'd probably come to realise that they are descended from a bunch of heretics.

It's a minor tragedy that no character can ever find this out, beyond vague hints.

The Amarrians were the righteous ones and they were fleeing from the heretics.   At least that's the version of history that has been written by the victors.

It all has a certain Old Testament feel to it - nobody calls Moses a heretic nowadays do they?

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

What always struck me as amusing is if an Amarr could trace the development of their culture back to the initial settlement of their planet, they'd probably come to realise that they are descended from a bunch of heretics.

It's a minor tragedy that no character can ever find this out, beyond vague hints.

The Amarrians were the righteous ones and they were fleeing from the heretics.   At least that's the version of history that has been written by the victors.

It all has a certain Old Testament feel to it - nobody calls Moses a heretic nowadays do they?

True. But the people he (and the Israelites) where fleeing where not co-religionists where they?

Given the modern empire I usually asume the initial group where hard-liners, like the group that Mel Gibson and his father have links to. However it would be even more hilarious if they where liberals, like the old liberation theology movement. Do you think we could get CCP to make that canon & bury a few IC hints in hard to find places?

Assuming you Mary folks like the idea that is.

[Rodj Blake]

What always struck me as amusing is if an Amarr could trace the development of their culture back to the initial settlement of their planet, they'd probably come to realise that they are descended from a bunch of heretics.

It's a minor tragedy that no character can ever find this out, beyond vague hints.

The Amarrians were the righteous ones and they were fleeing from the heretics.   At least that's the version of history that has been written by the victors.

It all has a certain Old Testament feel to it - nobody calls Moses a heretic nowadays do they?

True. But the people he (and the Israelites) where fleeing where not co-religionists where they?

Given the modern empire I usually asume the initial group where hard-liners, like the group that Mel Gibson and his father have links to. However it would be even more hilarious if they where liberals, like the old liberation theology movement. Do you think we could get CCP to make that canon & bury a few IC hints in hard to find places?

Assuming you Mary folks like the idea that is.

Going completely off-topic here, but there's a somewhat leftfield school of thought that claims that much of Jewish theology actually stems from the beliefs of Pharoah Akhenaten.

The idea of Akhenaten as the pioneer of a monotheistic religion that later became Judaism has been considered by various scholars.[54][55][56][57][58][59] One of the first to mention this was Sigmund Freud, the founder of psychoanalysis, in his book Moses and Monotheism.[60] Freud argued that Moses had been an Atenist priest forced to leave Egypt with his followers after Akhenaten's death. Freud argued that Akhenaten was striving to promote monotheism, something that the biblical Moses was able to achieve.[54] Following his book, the concept entered popular consciousness and serious research.

Other scholars and mainstream Egyptologists point out that there are direct connections between early Judaism and other Semitic religious traditions.[61] They also state that two of the three principal Judaic terms for God, Yahweh, Elohim (morphologically plural, lit. "gods"), and Adonai (morphologically plural, lit. "my lords" ) have a connection to Aten. Freud commented on the connection between Adonai, the Egyptian Aten and the Syrian divine name of Adonis as a primeval unity of language between the factions;[54] in this he was following the argument of Egyptologist Arthur Weigall. Jan Assmann's opinion is that 'Aten' and 'Adonai' are not linguistically related.[62]

Akhenaten appears in history almost two centuries prior to the first archaeological and written evidence for Judaism and Israelite culture is found in the Levant. Abundant visual imagery of the Aten disk was central to Atenism, which celebrated the natural world, while such imagery is not a feature of early Israelite culture.[63] However, pottery found throughout Judea dated to the end of the 8th century BC has seals resembling a winged sun disk burned on their handles. These are argued to be the royal seal of the Judean Kingdom.[64]

[kalaratiri]

Continuing the derailing, I have a rather excellent book on the subject Should anyone wish to go into more detail in their own time the book is named "A test of Time: The bible - from myth to history" by David Rohl, and it was also made into a TV series named Pharaohs and Kings, a biblical quest.

It is very interesting, and explores the roots of the Israelites in Egypt and their exodus, and the reason behind it etc. Good book :p