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[Valadeus]

So, as I did when I first started playing EVE, I did a lot of reading and research to sort of familiarize myself with the current climate and lore of EVE.

One thing I noticed pretty quickly is that the Amarrian "lore" has been changed, or at best, parts of it that were hard to find are now easily available. In particular, I refer to the information on the Theology Council, the Privy Council, the Council of Apostles, the Order of St. Tetrimon, the Moral Reforms and so on.

In brief, the current lore that I'm reading would make it seem as though a capsuleer that delved deep enough into history would realize that the Theology Council and Privy Council were both political ploys by the emperor during the Moral Reforms (about 1500 years ago) to rewrite the Scriptures into a form more beneficial to the Emperor having absolute authority and the disbanding of the Council of Apostles and banishment of the Order of St. Tetrimon were to keep the "new Scriptures" from being contested while the "old Scriptures" were purged.

So, I guess my question becomes: how relevant is the EVElopedia lore to the IGS? Is it knowledge that a delving capsuleer could find or is it something no one would ever know? If it is something a capsuleer could discover, wouldn't that pretty much cement the corruption of the Amarr Empire in its current state and dramatically weaken the position of loyalists?

[Kybernetes Moros]

I tend to treat most of the information on EVElopedia as fairly accessible to characters with the will to research; it's rare for there to be something that explicitly doesn't fit in. That's far more the territory of novels and chronicles, alas.

Regarding the last part of the post, welcome the the grand old world of Moebius logic. When Kyber was active, I had to lurk there a lot.

It can be a fun exercise to argue around what it says, though -- rather than going "ohp, that's us fucked", trying to think of a standpoint from which it makes sense. Without looking too deeply at the topic, something to the effect of "the Emperor's will is the will of the godhead; the restructuring of the Scriptures about the latter by the former is pretty reasonable" could work? It's not something I paid attention to, but it's an example of what I mean.

[Valadeus]

It's good advice, although very ironic. Given that's EXACTLY what I was doing as Raze (constantly arguing that the Reclaiming was a spiritual, not physical Reclaiming and that slavery was not supported by the Scriptures and using the Scriptures to argue that point).

If it weren't for the fact that I'm trying to play a loyal Amarr (what I call ultra-conservative because he wants to go back to the roots of the Empire as described in the Scripture, not the way it is now), I'd be excited about the corruption being laid bare. As it stands, however, it's like, "Huh, well, best thing to do now is burn everything to ashes and start over again!"

[Kybernetes Moros]

Loyalty and ultra-conservatism as described there seem fairly mutually exclusive to the Empire in its "recent" (by the last millenium and a half, anyway) state.

Treating the earlier stages of the Empire as described in the Scripture as having been improved upon and having the character agree with modifications to the Scriptures seems like the most straightforward thing to do.

[Morwen Lagann]

Just because the narrator on the majority of the EVElopedia entries is a supposedly objective and politically-neutral entity doesn't mean that you can necessarily take everything written by that narrator at face value, or as being available as-is.

An example: much of Amarrian history, particularly the origins of the Reclaiming. Not only is that really old history, it's also history that does not exactly paint the Empire in the nicest of lights - something any Amarrian historian with any sort of loyalty to God and Empress would ever want to allow anyone (let alone outsiders) to know.

Much of that history would be heavily redacted or edited (or, depending on your point of view, falsified) in order to preserve the "image" of the Empire. Instead of the facts (the appearance of a comparatively open-minded - and most importantly, different - Udorian society resulted in a SUPPRESS AND ENSLAVE ALL THE NONCONFORMIST THINGS response from the Amarrians), a heavily biased version ("the Udorians came and tried to force us to change our God-given way of life, so we kicked their ass and showed them the Light and True Path") would be what one would probably find.

Of course, at this point, almost all evidence to the contrary would be either near-impossible to find, or heavily guarded by those in power, so the most that other cultures might be able to put together would be flimsy theories.

The general rule as far as I can see is that you need to remember to put on your faction's groupthink-lens eyeglasses when reading the more history-oriented articles (technology, places and such, not so much) before you can really use it IC.

[Silas Vitalia]

^This

It would require extreme effort, time, and money to get to the bottom of a few thousand years of revisionist history by the Empire and their agents.

Something capsuleers have, of course. But not for the faint-hearted.

[Louella Dougans]

if you attempt to say anything that isn't exactly what is said in the evelopedia, people will nit pick it.

e.g. someone says things about how the Udorians were unrighteous.
someone else says "Except that's not what happened" and then uses the evelopedia to Prove You Wrong.

Even when it is unlikely that their character would know any of it.

But then of course, everyone is an Expert on Ancient Amarrian History. Also ancient Caldari culture.

[Lyn Farel]

if you attempt to say anything that isn't exactly what is said in the evelopedia, people will nit pick it.

e.g. someone says things about how the Udorians were unrighteous.
someone else says "Except that's not what happened" and then uses the evelopedia to Prove You Wrong.

Even when it is unlikely that their character would know any of it.

But then of course, everyone is an Expert on Ancient Amarrian History. Also ancient Caldari culture.

I think that you take it the wrong way. As much as I do not really like when people are adding direct links "in your face wtfpwned" to tell someone else that he is WRONG in their IGS posts - I tend to just read them and then tell MY interpretation of them instead of just linking them - I think there is a parallel to be made with our far, far less advanced current society.

Wecan already find basic info everywhere on the internet. I mean, everyone in a non-third world country can go browse on wikipedia and find basic info about things. Anything. And if it is not in the wikipedia, its somewhere else. Imagine with Galnet in Eve Online, and FTL communication, this mixed up with capsuleer access to technology and influences. It is a piece of cake to learn about ALMOST anything. And what is written on the evelopedia is not that different from what we can find IRL on wikipedia. You just have to take it the same way you do IRL. People do not agree on the interpretation to give on what is written in there.

Someone claiming that the Amarr never enslaved, attacked or any other obvious lies about the Udorians will probably get slapped in the face by someone that did proper historical research. That would be like claiming that Israel stole their territory to Palestinians.

Someone claiming that the Udorians tried to change their way of life and trade with them AS EQUALS, which explains why they were put back at their proper place, will likely gets outrage from his opponents, but he will NEVER get slapped for something that never happened, because he will perfectly admit that the Amarr conquered and enslaved the Udorians. That would be like claiming that Israel oppress Palestinians.

The difference lies in that the first one is just false, while the second one is only a matter of interpretation and biased view about historical things. People should be more subtle when playing on the IGS.

Of course, you can also claim that what is written in the Evelopedia is biased intergalactic liberal propaganda, for that it is probably not written the same way in the official Scriptures. The first rule is to accept history as it is, and THEN - and only THEN - you can try to twist it to your own light.

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Would just like to note that I've been thinking lots about making Aldy a closet Tetrimon.

[Morwen Lagann]

Would just like to note that I've been thinking lots about making Aldy a closet Tetrimon.

Aldy is definitely in the closet, but I'm not so sure it's the one labeled "Tetrimon"...

* Morwen Lagann flees! . . . . . . . . . . \o\

[Aldrith Shutaq]

* Aldrith Shutaq chases! . . . . . . . . . /o/

YOU GIT BACK 'ERE!

[Creep]

Someone contradicts your version of history?

Do what all the people in my field do: argue that their critic's version of history is poorly interpreted. People are constantly rewriting history, IRL. Why would EVE be any different?

Evelopedia is just one very commonly accepted set of texts that is made available to us. The older versions, the scrapped versions, and the fanmade stuff that's never really/mostly/explicitly addressed in PF can be viewed by our characters as their confirmation bias makes them see it.

[Valadeus]

To clarify: The rumors surrounding his brother's (Raze) death inspired Xane to invest his time and energy into exploring the history of the Empire and the Amarrian faith. Since he had been effectively hidden (by Raze claiming he had been killed several years ago) and therefore not eligible to the family name or inheritance (except what Raze gave him while living), Xane spent the majority of his funds and time delving into history and the Scriptures.

What he arrived at is the current implementation of history on EVElopedia (to some degree) and a very similar understanding of the Scriptures that his brother held (except the added understanding that they are currently modified from their original form). This would make Xane very supportive of the Order of St. Tetrimon, the Council of Apostles and the work his brother was doing.

With that in mind, he's a bit more firey than Raze was, which means he's willing to stir the pot a bit more and doesn't play politics quite like Raze did. He's careful enough not to outright voice his support of Tetrimon (and subsequent opposition to the Theology Council) but he also intends to reveal history for what it is.

Need opinions.

[lallara zhuul]

Problem with the Scriptures is of access.

Only TC has it, everyone else has revised editions.

I hate to get RL references here, but kinda like the Bible and the Vatican.

Only those that will not leak the informatiosn about what is written in the original writings that the Bible is based upon will ever have access to them.

Same would go for Scriptures, and anyone that is in the position to dictate dogma on any level would be so deeply indoctrinated that the dogma that they would produce would be completely in line with the old one.

Of course at the moment using any kind of intelligence or logic to construct possible ways of things happening in New Eden is a fools errand, because CCP treats it as a space opera, so anything goes as long as you make it EPIC!!!

[Rhiannon]

Would just like to note that I've been thinking lots about making Aldy a closet Tetrimon.

Ah, you too?