Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Louella Dougans]

There seems to be several things:

Imperial Army Paladins: appear to be the front line infantry.

Kameiras: special forces, most valuable properties appear to be Loyalty and Unbreakability. Possibly the best choice against heretics such as the Covenant.

Cyberknights: special forces, most valuable property appears to be sheer Ability.

There also exists:

Penal battalions: construction and rear-area troops. from: http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3374&tid=8

[Gottii]

Kamerias would be really really good soldiers.  Elite certainly. 

However, they would make very poor special ops soldiers, at least the way most people understand the term.

In special ops forces, you need a strong sense of individuality, of individual initiative, and creativity.  In short, the very things severe indoctrination takes from you.

They would be ideal to send into the most crucial and difficult objective of the battlefield. They would be terrible to send behind enemy lines or on covert missions.

[Louella Dougans]

Kamerias would be really really good soldiers.  Elite certainly. 

However, they would make very poor special ops soldiers, at least the way most people understand the term.

In special ops forces, you need a strong sense of individuality, of individual initiative, and creativity.  In short, the very things severe indoctrination takes from you.

They would be ideal to send into the most crucial and difficult objective of the battlefield. They would be terrible to send behind enemy lines or on covert missions.

like, Kameiras would be most useful to anchor a defensive line, and/or to spearhead an assault ? alongside regular forces ?

[Gottii]

Here's my main point on Cyberknights, is just a point about the (albeit meager) PF on what extent you can cybernetically enhance the human body in the EVE universe.

In The Burning Life, the characters mention that there is basically a maximum the human body can replace meat with metal, that the more you replace, the overall less effective the body becomes.  The described it as a "rule" or some such.  (Im at work, and dont have a copy of my book with me, I'll find the exact page if someone needs it)

In short, cybernetic enhancement is a yes, full on cyborg is a no. 

Or at least, full on cyborgs exist, but they're more like mono-task servitors from 40K than Ghost in the Shell.  In any of the Chronicles, the most ive seen a character modified is an Amarrian who has two cybernetic arms, and he's actually killed by a non-modified human.

While I know this contrary to a lot of player created fiction out there, and im sympathetic to that, I just wanted to point out where the PF is on this.

[Gottii]

Kamerias would be really really good soldiers.  Elite certainly. 

However, they would make very poor special ops soldiers, at least the way most people understand the term.

In special ops forces, you need a strong sense of individuality, of individual initiative, and creativity.  In short, the very things severe indoctrination takes from you.

They would be ideal to send into the most crucial and difficult objective of the battlefield. They would be terrible to send behind enemy lines or on covert missions.

like, Kameiras would be most useful to anchor a defensive line, and/or to spearhead an assault ? alongside regular forces ?

Yes, exactly.  Outstanding shock troops, told to take an objectives or to literally die trying. 

[Random Sentience]

Cyber Knights:

Many of the Khanid want to keep their warriors competitive, but the only way to do so in the modern world is through extensive body enhancements. The advanced knowledge of cyber implants possessed by the Amarr has proven exceptionally useful in this regard. Some Khanid still aim to excel in physical combat, while the more progressive ones seek to become masters of modern warfare.

Those who excel in physical combat: The "Kai Leng"-type martial artist.

Those who become masters of modern warfare: Pod pilots and DUST mercenaries. Probably could extend this to hackers/EW specialists (Think modified Sansha tech to turn a human into a cybernetic firewall).

You're welcome.

The Khanid Kingdom embraces technology, including cloning, much more willingly than the Amarr Empire. Even if most Amarr traditions and customs still exist within the kingdom, they’ve been modified so that Dark Amarr society is much more dynamic and robust than that of the Amarr Empire.

It's a big universe. Think it up, it might exist.

But somehow, most PF is centered around elite amarrian ground units, from cyberknights to kameiras, and elite counter boarding teams (and even the Dust soldiers in Templar One).

This is the case for all the Empires in PF. It's not an indication of the realities of the setting, it's simply that it's more glamorous to write about the special forces and elite units. The goal is to inspire the imagination.

Yes, exactly.  Outstanding shock troops, told to take an objectives or to literally die trying. 

You sir deserve a cookie!

[Lyn Farel]

But somehow, most PF is centered around elite amarrian ground units, from cyberknights to kameiras, and elite counter boarding teams (and even the Dust soldiers in Templar One).

This is the case for all the Empires in PF. It's not an indication of the realities of the setting, it's simply that it's more glamorous to write about the special forces and elite units. The goal is to inspire the imagination.

The only thing I have seen for the gallente and caldari are mere marines. Ok, marines are probably not the average military joe, but they do not get the same attention either. For the minmatar, we have Valklears... And Valklears. My point was that in the Empire they have created a shitload of elite ground units. That does not mean they only rely on these (that would be stupid anyway), but this is why I asked myself the question. There is a lot of fluff around cyberknights, kameiras (they have a dedicated chronicle, like the Valklears), or ingame items like counter boarding units that are specified to be the best in New Eden, created by the Amarr before all other factions because they actually had foreseen ship to ship boarding right when they started to meet other factions. This, additionally to Templars (cf Templar One from what I gather), made me suppose - and only suppose, I do not state anything ! - that the Amarr seem to always be at the forefront of ground military doctrines and technology.

[Silas Vitalia]

The Amarr have so many 'specialist' ground forces due to the fact that the 'rank and file' could be seen as lower 'quality' than the rank and file of the other Empires.

So your average Caldari or Gallente or Matari foot soldier /marine is probably slightly "better" equipped and trained vs the average Imperial ground soldier, but the Empire has 10x the numbers at their disposal. They can literally (Imperial Guard 40k style), just throw thousands and thousands of troops at something until it breaks; they have 4 times the territory and planets an population to conscript from.

This means they would have a huge hole in military doctrine if they didn't dump considerable resources into these 'specialist' forces.  I'd put it something like:

Average Imperial Soldier < Caldari/Matari/Gallente Soldier < Caldari/Matari/Gallente 'specialists' < Imperial 'Specialists'.

[Silas Vitalia]

I think of it as the Empire covering both the very low end and the very high end of the spectrum. Vast ranks of 'meh' general infantry but ridiculously expensive and rare 'elites' vs the other empires who have quite good general forces that tier up or down gradually.

[Gottii]

The Amarr have so many 'specialist' ground forces due to the fact that the 'rank and file' could be seen as lower 'quality' than the rank and file of the other Empires.

So your average Caldari or Gallente or Matari foot soldier /marine is probably slightly "better" equipped and trained vs the average Imperial ground soldier, but the Empire has 10x the numbers at their disposal. They can literally (Imperial Guard 40k style), just throw thousands and thousands of troops at something until it breaks; they have 4 times the territory and planets an population to conscript from.

This means they would have a huge hole in military doctrine if they didn't dump considerable resources into these 'specialist' forces.  I'd put it something like:

Average Imperial Soldier < Caldari/Matari/Gallente Soldier < Caldari/Matari/Gallente 'specialists' < Imperial 'Specialists'.

This argument doesnt necessarily follow.  The Russians in World War II followed a mass infantry attack doctrine much like the one youre describing, but they didnt really have to fill in the gaps with truly elite troops that we're markedly better than the Waffen SS for instance.  They simply used more troops.  "Quantity has a quality all its own".

[Silas Vitalia]

The Templars? Seems like they popped those out pretty smoothly and the implants were probably the only big new development.

[Silas Vitalia]

You're right with that not necessarily being reflected in our own history, but I think it makes sense for the Eve fiction, with the Amarr being so, so hierarchical, with an extremely steep 'pyramid' shaped society, I feel their military would be similar.  The huge majority at the bottom get the bare minimum training, equipment, etc, and the tiny few elite at the top through birth or wealth are the ones going to officer or commando school with their holder families paying for their own personal implants and specialist equipment perhaps.

[Publius Valerius]

The only thing I have seen for the gallente and caldari are mere marines. technology.

Maybe we try a very small list.... so that it is easier to to categorise ....

There seems to be several things:

Imperial Army Paladins: appear to be the front line infantry.

Kameiras: special forces, most valuable properties appear to be Loyalty and Unbreakability. Possibly the best choice against heretics such as the Covenant.

Cyberknights: special forces, most valuable property appears to be sheer Ability.

There also exists:

Penal battalions: construction and rear-area troops. from: http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3374&tid=8

Nice found Louella.


So now to the List:
Amarr:
Military:

• Penal battalions
• Paladins
• Kameiras
• Templars/Templar One

Privat (House forces)

• Paladins
• As for the royal Houses, of course the local Police forces/Navys/Customs. As example: Khanid Mashtori
• Cyperknights

Religious (Cults, sects, etc...)

• Paladins
• Zealots

As where is where?.... Kameiras are actually everywhere: Templar One, has a Kameira training facility in Hexandria (Khanid Kingdom) and the description of the Fort Kumar said: "The Amarr allowed the kameiras to become Ammatar citizens after the war, earning their freedom by their extraordinary bravery and loyalty to the Empire." So I would say there are in the "three" (Empire, Mandate, Kingdom). So I think it isnt overambitious to say, that the others Paladins, Cyberknight, Zeolots... everywhere to find.

So for me the Cyperknights are in the "Military part of society"*. There they are a elite forces for their Houses. As Zeolots for their cults etc....

*All apove mention are part of the "Military part of society". I count for the "Political part of society": Religious Reclaimers, Khanid Unionist etc... so all groups with a polictical goal/agenda (but without direct mention as them as a military forces). That means they can be still Roleplay in that way (as military units), but they also have a direct "bloc" meaning.

You're right with that not necessarily being reflected in our own history, but I think it makes sense for the Eve fiction, with the Amarr being so, so hierarchical, with an extremely steep 'pyramid' shaped society, I feel their military would be similar.

Sorry off topic: I work currently on the Khanid King page, if someone has to add something, it would be welcome. It can be really anything, Im on a death end right now.

[Mathra Hiede]

Publius - a little of topic but you seem to mention the Mashtori in your things briefly - to clarify somewhat here is something I wrote for them a while back now, its out of date but the content is pretty much solid from a Fan-Fiction point of view.

http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1074.msg12294#msg12294

The only editing I need to do is change the ARMA. References (now retired corp) to TR-VA (Trinity's Vanguard https://gate.eveonline.com/Corporation/Trinity's%20Vanguard) Which is my current corp and has a bit of info in its description

[Lyn Farel]

Amarr Counter-boarding Company

Found this too, but not full of info either.