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[Publius Valerius]

I think Lallara is right in that the unique selling point of Cyberknights would be the honor code part.

I agree.... and It would be awesome to have something like this..... (and a real one,.. not just a copy & past from a wiki article, with a word change from "Knight" or "Ninja" to "Cyperknight".

So as addition to here or here; How about:

Only people which are had (enter name)education, can call them self Cyperknight.
A Cyperknight cannt say no to a duell.

P.S. Just because I havent roast again a sword comment, doesnt mean Im sell on this idea. I still think that a sword isnt the point (and more a ritual/tradition thing, with almost no use)

[Lyn Farel]

People always think to knights. You can get inspiration from Samurais, too. Space bushido and the likes.

[Silas Vitalia]

People always think to knights. You can get inspiration from Samurais, too. Space bushido and the likes.

+This

This is EVE, so I imagine we'd take the best parts of both cultures, and blend them smoothly into a fine warrior-monk paste.

[Silas Vitalia]

People always think to knights. You can get inspiration from Samurais, too. Space bushido and the likes.

The Khanid are already much more 'space bushido' than 'knights templar' so this is a good direction.  I think the name  Cyber Knights just sounded cooler than 'cyber samurai' to the eve writers

[Aldrith Shutaq]

I'd expect the tradition to have just as much Amarrian influence as Khanid, and a good mix of both Khanid and True Amarrians practicing as cyber knights. Yes, a Khanid majority since it is their cultural hallmark, but remember not all (or even most) Khanid live in the Kingdom. Imperal cyber knights would probably be just as common as Kingdom ones.

[kalaratiri]

I don't know if any of you have ever read the Tales from the Ketty Jay series by Chris Wooding, but this discussion is reminding me strongly of a set of characters from those books: The Century Knights.

The Century Knights are basically an order made up of the best male and female warriors in the Kingdom. Each of them takes a single weapon, and specializes in it. This includes a woman with two short barreled shotguns, a man with a Gatling gun, and a man with a halberd. References are also made to men and women who use swords, pistols, axes, snipers, even bows and arrows.

These men and women are not 'heroes' nor do they have any particularly special abilities. They simply train every single day from childhood with their chosen weapon. They get very good. This allows a small team (usually of three) to take on much larger numbers. They have a code of honour, in that they are the King's personal 'strike team' and their only role is to protect the kingdom in any way possible, either by diplomacy or force.

I can imagine cyber knights to be something similar only sworn to their order or a noble instead of the kingdom as a whole. And of course stuffed full of implants

[Publius Valerius]

People always think to knights. You can get inspiration from Samurais, too. Space bushido and the likes.

+This

This is EVE, so I imagine we'd take the best parts of both cultures, and blend them smoothly into a fine warrior-monk paste.

+1.... and this is the hard part. To get this beliveable.... As so far I would agree on:

• All Bloodlines (True Amarr, Khanid, Ni-Kuni, Ammatar, Udorians) can become Cyperknights. But like already said... with a big junk of Khanid (bloodline), because of their warrior past (and the Bloodline-Ancestry description).
• All three Amarr Factions (Empire, Kingdom, Mandate) have their Cyperknights.
• A Cyberknight is loyal to his House. No cults, sects etc...  just manily Houses, with this limitation, we get an easy "hard" institution cut to the Zealots.
• You most have a certain education and code, before you can call yourself a Cyperknight
• Even if we "blend", between east and west; we can already say: There is conflict between tradition and modern technology. Like Silias already said:"Dichotomy of many Khanid in general: A fervent support of tradition, the past, and honor, while at the same time wholly embracing modern technology and a practical approach to problem solving." 1
• Cyberknights as it seems to be that they are basically nobility.

I also like Aria´s list

[Horatius Caul]

But in Amarr, science, technology and religion are the same. The point I was trying to arrive at is that if adoption of technology is traditional for the cyberknights there doesn't have to be a dichotomy or duality of knightly tradition and high technology. To us as players and readers it might come across that way, but from an in-character perspective there wouldn't be.

[Publius Valerius]

But in Amarr, science, technology and religion are the same. The point I was trying to arrive at is that if adoption of technology is traditional for the cyberknights there doesn't have to be a dichotomy or duality of knightly tradition and high technology. To us as players and readers it might come across that way, but from an in-character perspective there wouldn't be.

Have I said something different?... For Knights (west) and Buschido (east) [even if there is a Tom Cruise move...  Damn you Hollywoof for whore any topic... and have always a white lead] in their society and their time, they had almost the same view.....

Universial (catholic) view was everywhere, [before the first comes with Luther... he was later], and like you said about the amarrs... almost not to separate. Thats why in the Middelage... there was just three "studylines": Theology, Jurisprudence and Philosophie, and from the last one develop in central-europe.. the other studylines... like Medizin, History etc.... (add least the region where I life). But all this comes later....

About the east, I havent so much infos, to say that their was a conflict or not  .

About use reader: Yes, I agree. It is something was always comes somewhere up; and you have to develop a way for youself (indiviual). Thats why I have write it down (to have a complete list).

[Silas Vitalia]

But in Amarr, science, technology and religion are the same. The point I was trying to arrive at is that if adoption of technology is traditional for the cyberknights there doesn't have to be a dichotomy or duality of knightly tradition and high technology. To us as players and readers it might come across that way, but from an in-character perspective there wouldn't be.

I think these issues are of particular concern for the Khanid and Cyberknights, as they (Khanid Kingdom) have been portrayed as quite different from the Empire in these particular issues.  Technology and Religion might not be separate issues for the Amarr, but they are slow and ponderous to adapt and change. They way they've done things is 'the way it's always been done, and always will be' sort of mentality, as opposed to the Kingdom who have been forced to reconcile tradition vs practical matters of adapting a small nation-state to survive and thrive through embracing rapid technology changes, etc.

[Lyn Farel]

But in Amarr, science, technology and religion are the same. The point I was trying to arrive at is that if adoption of technology is traditional for the cyberknights there doesn't have to be a dichotomy or duality of knightly tradition and high technology. To us as players and readers it might come across that way, but from an in-character perspective there wouldn't be.

The corp I ran before entering KotMC was centered around CyberKnights philosophies. We used that kind of mindset : science was the ultimate goal blended into some kind of religious fervour channeled into ethical dogmas, honour and a strong code of morals (something in the lines of the justicar's code of ME. "Samara compares the code and duties of the justicar to that of the knights-errant in Medieval Christendom, or the Japanese samurai." Fits new KotMC quite well by the way.

So anyway yes, it was very transhumanist, somewhere, I believe.

[Publius Valerius]

But in Amarr, science, technology and religion are the same. The point I was trying to arrive at is that if adoption of technology is traditional for the cyberknights there doesn't have to be a dichotomy or duality of knightly tradition and high technology. To us as players and readers it might come across that way, but from an in-character perspective there wouldn't be.

I think these issues are of particular concern for the Khanid and Cyberknights, as they (Khanid Kingdom) have been portrayed as quite different from the Empire in these particular issues.  Technology and Religion might not be separate issues for the Amarr, but they are slow and ponderous to adapt and change. They way they've done things is 'the way it's always been done, and always will be' sort of mentality, as opposed to the Kingdom who have been forced to reconcile tradition vs practical matters of adapting a small nation-state to survive and thrive through embracing rapid technology changes, etc.

+1 Affirm. I had actually also more the Reader and the Kingdom in mind. I also think it is less a problem for the Cyperknight as for the Zealots; last one are more/stronger religious orientated/motivated.

Cyperknight... How i understand arent directly reclaimers maybe?...

As for the middle ages... there are the "Teutonic Knights", Johanniter on Rhodos and some crusader states, which I would count more closer to the Zealots. As first Monks/Crusaders, than Knights.
For the Cyperknight maybe I would go -- like I said -- with alliances and loyalty to Houses, and less to cultes, sects etc... so Knights first, than Monks/Crusaders.

I know it is more a milky distinction, but it is one.

• All Bloodlines (True Amarr, Khanid, Ni-Kuni, Ammatar, Udorians) can become Cyperknights. But like already said... with a big junk of Khanid (bloodline), because of their warrior past (and the Bloodline-Ancestry description).
• All three Amarr Factions (Empire, Kingdom, Mandate) have their Cyperknights.
• A Cyberknight is loyal to his House. No cults, sects etc...  just manily Houses, with this limitation, we get an easy "hard" institution cut to the Zealots.
• You most have a certain education and code, before you can call yourself a Cyperknight
• Cyberknights are first Knights, than Monks/Crusaders.
  
• Cyberknights as it seems to be that they are basically nobility.
• As for the Kingdom and moderen viewer/reader: Even if we (we in the meaning of the reader) "blend", between east and west; we can already say: There is conflict between tradition and modern technology. Like Silias already said:"Dichotomy of many Khanid (in the meaning of the Kingdom) in general: A fervent support of tradition, the past, and honor, while at the same time wholly embracing modern technology and a practical approach to problem solving." 1

[Mathra Hiede]

Please bear in mind here that while other denominations, IE the Empire and the Mandate may have something approaching Cyberknights i seriously doubt that they have any direct links to what we should specify as ACTUAL Cyberknights, ie the ones based in the Khanid Kingdom.

As has been stated here the Kingdom is the most flexible and adaptive of the three cultures and to me, the only one to make viable use of them as the others all ready have specialist infantry units, Kameira's and such.

[Ulphus]

As has been stated here the Kingdom is the most flexible and adaptive of the three cultures and to me, the only one to make viable use of them as the others all ready have specialist infantry units, Kameira's and such.

Bearing in mind that my awareness of Amarrian PF is pretty poor, Kameira's seem to me to fill a different niche than the Cyberknights.

Kameira are (or seem to be) the brainwashed shock troops, they're of lesser value than Amarrian troops, so if you need them to charge across a minefield to achieve an objective, that's a loss of assets, but not a moral issue.

The thing (all my cultural baggage tells me) about cyber knights is that they can be trusted to do the right thing because they believe it's the right thing, not because they've been conditioned into blind obedience. This means you can give them a lot more tactical freedom and still trust them to get the job done; to do the things that are for the good of God and the Empress, even if it means their deaths.

That's potentially a very powerful tool.

(
This is assuming that there are "knights" in the Amarrian service who are actual believers, rather than cynical opportunists hiding their pedophilia behind a veneer of respectability...

(Incidentally, 85% through TEA and if I was playing an Amarrian character I would have thrown the kindle at the wall several times by now at how badly they got screwed by TonyG))

[Lyn Farel]

Kameiras, iirc, are most some kind of amarrian variant of the Valklears. They are elite troops. Even more elite than the Valklear maybe, considering the indoctrination they get starting in their childhood. My bet is that they can surely be used as shocktroops when it is needed or to avoid too many casualties, but definitly not as meatshields, and rather as what were the SS in the WW2. Considering how the whole training of a single Kameira might cost, I highly doubt they are sent in the frontline to act as meatshields. For me it is kindof like the french legion (more elite though), they are sent in dirty places where nasty business has to be done to spare the regular troops, but they definitly are not second hand units either, quite the contrary.

I think that even if it is not specified in the PF (as much as I am aware of), the real amarrian meatshields troops are constituted of commoners or lesser bloodlines engaged in the navy/army. But somehow, most PF is centered around elite amarrian ground units, from cyberknights to kameiras, and elite counter boarding teams (and even the Dust soldiers in Templar One). We lack of info on their regular troops, but maybe the Amarr Empire actually does not use that many troops and heavily counts on elite units. Or maybe not.