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[Aria Jenneth]

So, standard cyberpunk creation / trope / obstacle / resource: you take standard dogs, probably of some traditional attack or guard breed such as the Doberman. You cyber them up with enhanced reflexes, eyesight, tactical programming/training, strength-- the usual "whole nine yards" used to turn a beefy human into a certifiable nightmare, only with a beefy dog, instead. You put them on patrol in sensitive areas, use them as personal guard/pets, and generally wire them into your security network for rapid response at need.

Is there anything in Eve fiction to confirm or deny the existence of such creatures, or their equivalents, in New Eden?

If so, what other creatures might be cybered from time to time? Can you acquire, or make, a chipped slaver dog? What is the effect if you apply an intelligence extension, and is a slaver dog as smart as a baseline human something to value or to be scared shitless of? (I know there's no contradiction; what I mean is, should it be possible to keep such a creature controlled?)

If not, what might the practical or philosophical barriers be to creating them?

... Personally, I think the strongest argument for their non-existence is that as far as we know, Amarrian ground forces are not spearheaded by enhanced slaver dogs with humanlike intelligence, quick-draw implants, and turreted miniguns, among other fun toys, which would seem like a logical application of the technology.

Ah. There's one likely reason: such a creature would likely be ex-pen-sive. Cyberpunk settings usually presume that cyberware is cheap and readily available; I'm not at all sure that's the case in New Eden.

Thoughts?

[Esna Pitoojee]

... Personally, I think the strongest argument for their non-existence is that as far as we know, Amarrian ground forces are not spearheaded by enhanced slaver dogs with humanlike intelligence, quick-draw implants, and turreted miniguns, among other fun toys, which would seem like a logical application of the technology.

I think part of the reason hinges on one specific description in your idea: "Humanlike intelligence". Amarrians are not known to be huge fans of bio-engineering; in fact there are several suggestions that it may be actively fought against in several portions of the Empire. Without the option to bio-engineer a smarter cyberdog, you're left with the option of overriding their higher functions with some kind of TCMC-like device, which in turn receives orders from an onboard tactical computer. However, this does not solve the problem either; Amarrians are nowhere near the leading edge when it comes to autonomous computer systems, and even the Gallente drone systems are not truly autonomous - perhaps a state now less related to limitations in technology than the bans on autonomous computer systems brought on by the failures that created Rogue Drones.


So, in the end, what you're left with is a strong, fast, armored and armed dog, but one that will be no smarter than a regular dog (albeit perhaps better at recognizing at distinguishing targets thanks to sensors feeding into the dog's brain, assuming the dogs don't go insane due to the stress of processing information they were never evolved to deal with).

It'd make a decent fire-support platform to accompany troops in the field, or maybe a sort of limited hunter-sniffer to track down and attack enemies you know are hiding in a limited area. But it'd be far from a general-purpose, adaptable weapon, as in the end you are still relying on a canine intelligence at the helm of the thing.



Of course, as you said, the question at the end of this - human life in the Empire being quite possibly cheaper than the kind of advanced implants needed to build this thing - is, "Why bother making one of these when we can train and outfit fifty fanatic slaves and ten GIs with standard equipment and send them into the field instead?"

Now, in the Kingdom...

[Kyoko Sakoda]

Poor puppies. They need love, not war.

[lallara zhuul]

Drones are probably a much cheaper and more efficient alternative.

Have a 'rigger' kind of person in a pod interface run the tactical stuff and comms.

Also, slaver hounds are the better versions of regular dogs.

If its not broken, don't try to fix it.

[Ghost Hunter]

This does remind me

Kybernetes when is that puppy going in for augmentation

(TS-F has a specific part of our application form addressing this topic, people can opt in for their pets to be SCIENCED)

I cannot think of any hard PF examples that have cybernised animals, the most I can scrap out of my brain is something involving Slaver Hounds or Fedos. Animals in general, however, are a very infrequently touched subject in the PF.

[Chell Charon]

Well, instead of enhancing a hound cyberpunk style with added weapons and the whole nineyards.

How about breeding it stronger and faster. Add some genetic engineering to make drool (old name droolers) into something your average human would not like to get beneath their skin (Hallucinogenic perhaps).

And then cybering up on protection, speed and strength in that order? (Fangs especially so the poor puppy wont just gnaw on an armored human needlessly  )

Something on those lines could still run on that good ol doggy brain and use normal tactics of a slaverhound (fast attacks, from high or just jumping meters above the ground to land on prey.)

Such an animal would make a decent bodyguard, generally receiving less attention than say.. having a Khanid cyberknight standing next to you.

Lallara is going to murder me for this?

[lallara zhuul]

Nah.

Still cheaper to breed a hundred slaver hounds than to cyber one up.

[Ghost Hunter]

Nah.

Still cheaper to breed a hundred slaver hounds than to cyber one up.

Yes.

A hundred slaver hounds cannot fill the role of a specialist, however. That would be the primary point in augmenting a specific animal outside of luxury and decadence.

[Kybernetes Moros]

My logic has always been something to the effect of "human cybernetics are tremendously advanced in the setting; cost allowing, there's no outright reason for it to never happen with animals, though issues with adapting to the new limbs (or whatever) may arise a bit more in the animal given that they have no idea what the flying fuck happened".

Given the particularly specified nature of the animal cybernetics, though, I'm unsure if the cost would actually outweigh the benefit, even for very specialist applications. I'm not sure I know enough to speculate, either.

[Lyn Farel]

This does remind me

Kybernetes when is that puppy going in for augmentation

(TS-F has a specific part of our application form addressing this topic, people can opt in for their pets to be SCIENCED)

Do TS-F enhance their hanging long limbs and fedos ?

[Aria Jenneth]

I think part of the reason hinges on one specific description in your idea: "Humanlike intelligence". Amarrians are not known to be huge fans of bio-engineering....

I was thinking more along the lines of Intelligence-boosting implants, which are already canonical (most of our characters probably have them in their skulls at this very moment). Of course, considering that slaver dogs are are an "alien" life form, it's possible that human cybertech might not work so well on their nervous systems. Then again, again, it's not like they're a newly-introduced species-- and it's not like cybertech is brand-new, either. There have probably been somewhere between hundreds and thousands of years for someone to get the research done.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I was thinking more along the lines of Intelligence-boosting implants, which are already canonical (most of our characters probably have them in their skulls at this very moment). Of course, considering that slaver dogs are are an "alien" life form, it's possible that human cybertech might not work so well on their nervous systems. Then again, again, it's not like they're a newly-introduced species-- and it's not like cybertech is brand-new, either. There have probably been somewhere between hundreds and thousands of years for someone to get the research done.

Hrm. Interesting take on the implants; I'd always viewed them as a means to augment an existing intelligence - in the cybernetic subprocessor's case a means to preemptively sort and categorize information - rather than a means to elevate something to an entirely different level of intelligence.

From a purely technical standpoint I suppose the question is then will the Hound be able to learn how to use the new implants to their fullest degree? A human who receives an implant is already able to follow a training regimen to help them access the implant and use its capabilities; could a Hound do the same?

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Somehow I doubt it. Additionally, physical implants need to be gotten used to also. What is going to keep the hound from thinking and acting under the impression it has a certain amount of strength, only to find that when he pawed the door to let you know he was hungry he actually kicked it off its hinges.

[Chell Charon]

Have the implantation effects rise incrementally. (Through implant programming etc.)

Will take time, but even humans are suspectible to learning that way.

[Mithfindel]

The standard attribute boosting implants actually don't offer any benefits to you. What they do is that uploading relevant skill data is faster, i.e. they interface with the learning equipment. A social chip doesn't make you more social - it does make you learn skills related to the sections of the brain that deal with social situation faster.

Then, admitted, there's a whole lot of hardwirings, which might be simply preprogrammed routines, allowing the user to do specific tasks with less effort (though they allow increasing ingame skills beyond the "natural" maximum).