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[Louella Dougans]

Honestly I lost interest when Molag Bal was the main Daedric enemy.

That particular Daedra is based on things that rub me really bad.

can you expand on this ?

[Seriphyn]

http://imgur.com/a/fO9Ty#0

Scans from GameInformer, pages of first look details regarding lots of mechanics. Haven't read it myself. Only interested if it has a proper combat system like TERA

[Davlos]

Yawn. Not interested.

[hellgremlin]

No diseases. Interest killed. Wanted to RP a corprus zombie and encourage people to eat my corprus weepings.

[Nmaro Makari]

It will probably end up as a WoW with better graphics.

[Ghost Hunter]

Honestly I lost interest when Molag Bal was the main Daedric enemy.

That particular Daedra is based on things that rub me really bad.

can you expand on this ?

Aria brings up some good points with his shrine quests during the main games. My central grievance with him, however, is how prominent rape and sexual domination is used in his canon lore. You rarely see mention of it in the games, but if you dig around in TES lore (particularly the origin story book detailing how Vampires came into existence, from Oblivion's The Vile Lair DLC) he is unashamedly based on that. King of Rape is even one of his Daedric titles, to drive the point home.

To market someone like that as the main villain of a major game title would require massive censoring and toning down of his true nature. While I am all too happy to have that aspect of his character striped away and forgotten, it would make the game lore inconsistent with itself - something TES steadfastly avoids doing. I can simply find nothing interesting about Molag Bal, his very premise is based on something I finid repulsive at a fundamental level. He is a boring villain and a bad choice, and will only create more problems for the MMO I think.

[Bacchanalian]

Doesn't the fact that his very premise is abhorrent make him an effective villain?

[Mizhara]

And for that matter, he's pretty much a perfect Sansha equivalent, so I don't see the consistency here. Well, except that Molag Bal is less of a douche.

[BloodBird]

Doesn't the fact that his very premise is abhorrent make him an effective villain?

I do believe Ghost's idea here is that he won't be a 'cool enemy' villain, he will be a 'tasteless sex-offender' villain.

This can work against it's purpose, as it was.

As for this game, I like the Elder scrolls games because of their epic solo-play adventure. Sure I'd love a small 5-man team co-op through the land, working together for the common goal, but an MMO kills the mood and winning nature of the setting. It just don't fit.

Nor do I have the time to try it.

[Ghost Hunter]

Doesn't the fact that his very premise is abhorrent make him an effective villain?

This statement could go in a lot of ways, so I'll try to go for the academic one.

It makes him an effective villain in so far as getting people to despise him and maybe motivated to stop him. It makes him a boring villain when his moral gimmick is so utterly repugnant there is zero room for expanding it. You can't make rape interesting, be it the sexual or metaphorical (mind rape) kind. The only recourse I can see is to completely ignore that core facet of his identity and try to move into the more ambiguous fields (governmental domination, cultural domination, etc).

Effective villain depends on what you want to do, I think. He is effective if the idea is to get a villain no one wants to sympathize with or like in any way. He is two dimensional and frail if you want to do anything else.

Doesn't the fact that his very premise is abhorrent make him an effective villain?

I do believe Ghost's idea here is that he won't be a 'cool enemy' villain, he will be a 'tasteless sex-offender' villain.

This can work against it's purpose, as it was.

Something like this, yes.

[Ulphus]

I used to play a lot of Runequest.
There are bad-guys in Runequest like the trolls. The trolls are creatures of darkness, and will eat pretty much anything, and are often at odds with various human cultures, but they're not monolithic, they have internal disagreements, they can be enemies in general and friends in specific.

Broo are the rape monsters. They breed by raping anything that moves (literally, sheep, dogs, cows, horses, people...) and depositing a chest-burster which eventually eats its way out and quite often has some sort of disease or chaotic feature. They are enemies in general and specific. Player characters can kill them without moral qualm, it is never a bad thing to kill a broo (except possibly as a trigger for revenge attacks by others, but being chaotic they don't work together that well).

Trolls are interesting adversaries. Understandable (in an alien sort of way), with motivations of their own. They can be negotiated with and in certain situations can be allies or even friends (to some players. Player races are generally not monolithic either, and it was funny to find half the party prepared to work with trolls and the other half really not).

Broo are really boring. There is no opportunity for players to negotiate or ally with them, short of selling your soul to chaotic, evil and untrustworthy gods.

Applied to Elder scrolls, what this means is I agree with Ghost completely about how interesting a game will be where the major adversary is Molag Bal. In the Skyrim encounter I didn't really know who Molag Bal was the first time, and once I'd played through I avoided it from then on. Boring, tasteless, and not followed through properly. You get no downside to the deal you make with him. The mace isn't corrupting you (as far as I can tell). It's basically power with no drawbacks (other than being weak compared with other magic items).

[Ava Starfire]

Wow. Kala is right... I squee'ed!

Yeah, I will play it. Hopefully I will love it. I will certainly try it.

Not sure why so many people are all like *hipster, yawn, no thx* but ok I guess?

[Lyn Farel]

Not sure for everyone, but I have never really enjoyed the Elder Scrolls myself. Funnily enough I don't like open worlds solo RPGs, I often believe it belongs to MMOs, so maybe it could actually be interesting here. Will have to read more about it.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

I used to play a lot of Runequest.
There are bad-guys in Runequest like the trolls. The trolls are creatures of darkness, and will eat pretty much anything, and are often at odds with various human cultures, but they're not monolithic, they have internal disagreements, they can be enemies in general and friends in specific.

Broo are the rape monsters. They breed by raping anything that moves (literally, sheep, dogs, cows, horses, people...) and depositing a chest-burster which eventually eats its way out and quite often has some sort of disease or chaotic feature. They are enemies in general and specific. Player characters can kill them without moral qualm, it is never a bad thing to kill a broo (except possibly as a trigger for revenge attacks by others, but being chaotic they don't work together that well).

Can't comment on Skyrim as i suspect my current kit can't run it. My flatmate has a copy & likes it however.

But as regards Broo (who to a Warhammer player would look like standard chaos beastmen). Ever heard of the healer of the waste? This is a Broo that joins the head taking cult and gets "corrupted" by exposure to the spirit of a dead healer priestess. It renounces violence, changes cults and becomes a wandering healer.

So even Broo have a bit of complexity in RQ canon. Of course the irony is most people from that god ridden setting see things in very good and evil, no compromise ways.

[Seriphyn]

Not sure why so many people are all like *hipster, yawn, no thx* but ok I guess?

I think the issue is that it looks like any other MMO right now, especially if they go with the auto-attack point-and-click stuff. I was expecting it to be the same as vanilla TES, first-person and all that, which would be extremely innovative.