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[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Regarding the slaver fighting missions in the Republic & Fed.

The usual pattern in these is you fight past some Caldari raiders to get to Imperial ships guarding a slave compound (one assumes a transit point before they are sent back to the Empire). I've always assumed that what is happening here is Caldari are acting as mercenaries and doing the actual slave taking. The Imperials concerned can then claim that they haven't actually broken any laws. They are just taking these people into custody from others that can't look after them properly.

The ships concerned tend to drop navy tags. In one instance a Khanid Royal Navy ship is encountered, but usually it's mainstream State & Empire units.

[Lyn Farel]

Yeah I remember this mission, I have done it several times in the past. What was funny is that its about navy state and imperial ships. Which make both empire look like hypocrites (where you can find the exact same thing for the 2 other factions in their opposite factions space).

What I find interesting as I said, are all the new infos we have on things that were mostly vague and suggested before. Things like Matari claiming that Heideran's decree was bullshit and nobody actually did anything to punish rogue slavers, which is apparently quite the contrary. I do not blame them because they did this (and it also remains logical ICly), but I am glad that CCP finally added true historical precisions on this in PF so that its not anymore a case of "they did this" "oh ? prove it" "no you", or more precisely people arguing over biased speculations.

I'm a bit puzzled about your intention here: could you please clarify it?

Whatever the official line about punishments, Matari who accept certain missions against the Amarrians (and, from memory, the Caldari) know that there's slaving in the Republic because they've fought the ships doing it. It's apparently not meant to happen, but it does happen.

(I'm wracking my memory to think whether it would be possible to interpret it as "your agent was misinforming you", but, without going back over mission items and drops and such, I think it's pretty much unequivocal.)

I am not denying any of these missions - even if we know how they are to be taken with a whole pinch of salt, cf the recent discussion on this here. I was just pointing out that in several IC debates around this particular point (rogue slavers operating outside of the Empire), Amarrian loyalists ICly denied the fact while Matari loyalists  ICly answered that it actually happens, branding these missions as proof. Then Amarrian loyalists ICly answered that the Republic should take care better of how they watch the criminals operating in their territory, and Matari loyalists to answer that said criminals are not taken care of either in the Empire and that the Empire does nothing about it and actually condones it (hence the navy ships). Then it evolved in the usual name calling and speculation about what Heideran really did or not with the decree and how he was a hypocrite or not... etc etc.

My point is that until now, all of this was mere speculation based on vague facts on the only basis they happen in a few Minmatar missions. Now, we have more ground and matter to discuss about it, thus I find all these infos very welcome.

[orange]

I really do not like the dog-tag mechanic.

[Morwen Lagann]

I think the Amarr/Caldari ones offered by Gallente and Minmatar agents that Arnulf is referring to are a set of four mission strings, one for each level. They're definitely connected to each other; almost an early version of an epic arc of sorts. A good chunk of the L3 string is actually about getting around the fleet that's present in the last room of the L2 string:

Level 1: In the Shadow of War (5 parts)
Level 2: Human Cattle (5 parts)
Level 3: Portal to War (5 parts)
Level 4: In the Midst of Deadspace (5 parts)

I never spent lots of time missioning for the Amarr or Caldari so I've not found their corresponding series of missions.

Also, I remember this one particular mission string offered to me when I was doing L1s for Fed Navy back when I was but a wee noob. For those who haven't taken it, you're basically asked by one of the Republic's allies to attack a Minmatar relief convoy and frame the Amarrians for it.

This was one of the things that initially pushed Morwen away from empire political bullshit, and part of why she thinks most of the highsec entities are sick and in need of a firm beating.

EDIT: made things a little clearer

[Vieve]

Perhaps as a result, I've always envisioned the Kingdom as appearing to be a welcoming, reasonable entity, the Caldari influence making them seem like fair businesspeople instead of a monolithic religious entity like their neighbours; until you poke a stick around and take a good look beneath the surface, and realise that it's probably combined the worst aspects of both its neighbours.  They just keep really quiet about it.

I can see it being an EVE equivalent of Illium.  "Slavery? What slavery? It's indentured servitude! They have contracts!"

[Vieve]

Also, I remember this one particular mission string offered to me when I was doing L1s for Fed Navy back when I was but a wee noob. For those who haven't taken it, you're basically asked by one of the Republic's allies to attack a Minmatar relief convoy and frame the Amarrians for it.

And shoot down CONCORD while doing so.  And blow up a colony.  Always struck me as odd as why there was a slave colony in Federation space (one could argue that the agent was just calling a colony of expat Minmatar a slave colony).


One of my male alts managed to get offered nothing but this mission one day, despite moving between multiple L1 Federation agents. I reasoned that ICly, he'd be freaked out ("Roden, Chemal Tech, FedMart, TSS ... aaagh!  They're all in on it, and I'm being set up to be their fall guy!") and flee, so he did.

[Repentence Tyrathlion]

Perhaps as a result, I've always envisioned the Kingdom as appearing to be a welcoming, reasonable entity, the Caldari influence making them seem like fair businesspeople instead of a monolithic religious entity like their neighbours; until you poke a stick around and take a good look beneath the surface, and realise that it's probably combined the worst aspects of both its neighbours.  They just keep really quiet about it.

I can see it being an EVE equivalent of Illium.  "Slavery? What slavery? It's indentured servitude! They have contracts!"

...wow.  I never thought of that.

I like it.  Illium, just without the whole psuedo-Coruscant thing.

[Lyn Farel]

I think the Amarr/Caldari ones offered by Gallente and Minmatar agents that Arnulf is referring to are a set of four mission strings, one for each level. They're definitely connected to each other; almost an early version of an epic arc of sorts. A good chunk of the L3 string is actually about getting around the fleet that's present in the last room of the L2 string:

Level 1: In the Shadow of War (5 parts)
Level 2: Human Cattle (5 parts)
Level 3: Portal to War (5 parts)
Level 4: In the Midst of Deadspace (5 parts)

I never spent lots of time missioning for the Amarr or Caldari so I've not found their corresponding series of missions.

Also, I remember this one particular mission string offered to me when I was doing L1s for Fed Navy back when I was but a wee noob. For those who haven't taken it, you're basically asked by one of the Republic's allies to attack a Minmatar relief convoy and frame the Amarrians for it.

This was one of the things that initially pushed Morwen away from empire political bullshit, and part of why she thinks most of the highsec entities are sick and in need of a firm beating.

EDIT: made things a little clearer

Amarr/Caldari side you have Enemies Abound for example. You start by being asked to go shoot at an illegal gallente settlement that is actually a part of a gallente incursion in amarr space leading to a Roden shipyard... The last part reveals to whom they give the ships they produce : minmatar freedom fighters and the likes accessing the territory through a hidden stargate.

[Desiderya]

You get the freedom fighter invasion in deepest caldari space, too. :/

[Lyn Farel]

Well yes as all these missions do not depend on the location they are given in, but by who they are given. I usually get anti Caldari/Amarr missions given by a SOE agent in Caldari space... Which is totally fucked up. @_@

[Seriphyn]

RL morality being imposed in RP? of course!

Democracy is a lie, religion is evil. Only hip tribalism or pure  meritocracy is the way.

Except all factions have gaping holes. We all OOC rally against dictatorships IRL, but need to remember that 80% of the EVE universe is authoritarian.

I loved the slavery article. very illuminating. No matter what though, as already pointed out, it will still be seen as teh bad.

If EVE had alien races instead, i think our perspectives and approaches would be different

[BloodBird]

RL morality being imposed in RP? of course!

Democracy is a lie, religion is evil. Only hip tribalism or pure  meritocracy is the way.

Except all factions have gaping holes. We all OOC rally against dictatorships IRL, but need to remember that 80% of the EVE universe is authoritarian.

I loved the slavery article. very illuminating. No matter what though, as already pointed out, it will still be seen as teh bad.

If EVE had alien races instead, i think our perspectives and approaches would be different

Yes, we would. I for instance, would likely un-sub in disgust. I *love* the no-alien approach to EVE and the intra-Human conflicts. Makes things considerably more complex, for one.

As for the IRL-biased viewpoints of players affecting their toon's decisions and ideals, fuck em. Best way to counter anyone who does the average, obvious my-toon-is-clearly-myself routine can be molested verbally and beaten down until their so-called opinions and ideas are laughable punctured and dis-credited, or alternatively they can simply be ignored and frozen out of any interaction. Or anything in between, really.

"I think democracy is a lie and the Fed is weak and helpless, I'mma go defect to whatever and make your lives horrible cause that's more cool and hip. God help you all if you want reasoned, logical arguments from me concerning my ideas though, that's not happening, lol. Also this is clearly a view-point I've suddenly developed out of the blue and is in no way influenced by the claims of the voice in my head."

^Sure it is, obviously.

Not the best example, but it gets my point across. Those who clearly act based solely on IC reasoning as opposed to any action or belief that is likely to have stemmed from the game itself... well, there are ways those tendencies can be dealt with.

BTW I don't rail against dictatorships IRL. I rail against ineffective, oppressive wannabe-governments who could not do their jobs well if their lives depended on it. That's another topic, though...

[Publius Valerius]

RL morality being imposed in RP? of course!

Democracy is a lie, religion is evil. Only hip tribalism or pure  meritocracy is the way.

Except all factions have gaping holes. We all OOC rally against dictatorships IRL, but need to remember that 80% of the EVE universe is authoritarian.

I loved the slavery article. very illuminating. No matter what though, as already pointed out, it will still be seen as teh bad.

If EVE had alien races instead, i think our perspectives and approaches would be different

BTW I don't rail against dictatorships IRL. I rail against ineffective, oppressive wannabe-governments who could not do their jobs well if their lives depended on it. That's another topic, though...

Nice^^ Why I think, I found a soul brother....
You are okay, if I go in future with a hypster "bro", when we chat?

Yes, we would. I for instance, would likely un-sub in disgust. I *love* the no-alien approach to EVE and the intra-Human conflicts. Makes things considerably more complex, for one.

I like the no-alien approch too.... I like it in many books or series (Legend of the Galactic Heroes etc)..... I also think, that a sci-fi-fantasy universe with aliens is harder to make.