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[Bacchanalian]

Warning, exagerated analogy inc : in the same vein, thats not because some dude is doing a genocide somewhere that you killing only a single person is not very serious in itself.

To indulge your ridiculous analogy for a moment, the difference is the guy who is suspected of a single murder goes to his local court system and faces consequences through that.  The genocidal individual goes to The Hague and faces the ICC.  Very different levels of reaction.

[Lyn Farel]

They are ?

[Kala]

You may or may not agree, but personally I tend to think he's not wrong in saying that labeling what he did as cyberbullying undermines the term entirely, and that the real perpetrators are those who go out of their way to repeatedly harass someone to the point of ruining their lives.  See also; 4chan when some poor girl makes the dumb choice of sending out pictures of herself performing less-than-kosher acts with a significant other or in various states of undress, and they go out of their way to not only figure out who this girl is, but to harass her on Facebook, contact her parents/peers and share the photos, and ensure that her existence is utterly ruined by them in the process.

I don't disagree.  Which is not to say that what Mittani did was right just because something else is worse, but in my opinion it's absolutely (for one reason or another) been blown out of all proportion. 

[Bacchanalian]

Pot stirring time.

Goons scammed some mentally instable dude out of all of his worth in EVE.  Dude proceeds to fail at offing himself then posts pictures to twitter of how actually managed to down the road rather than across the street but still didn't quite do the job.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?13161-Scammer-took-my-cash-I-feel-like-killing-myself-IRLIngame-%28blawrf-vs-human-decency%29

Right?  Wrong?  Should the scammer feel bad?  Should he be thrown in jail, tied to a wall and tickled with feathers 12 hours a day?  Electric chair?  Patted on the back? 

[Davlos]

Pot stirring time.

Goons scammed some mentally instable dude out of all of his worth in EVE.  Dude proceeds to fail at offing himself then posts pictures to twitter of how actually managed to down the road rather than across the street but still didn't quite do the job.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?13161-Scammer-took-my-cash-I-feel-like-killing-myself-IRLIngame-%28blawrf-vs-human-decency%29

Right?  Wrong?  Should the scammer feel bad?  Should he be thrown in jail, tied to a wall and tickled with feathers 12 hours a day?  Electric chair?  Patted on the back?

I've always been of the opinion that all Goons ought to be put in a boiling pot of broth for my own culinary experimentation.

[BloodBird]

If I've got this right one of the many thousands of random victims of the goons was far more fragile IRL than most of us and could not cope, now he failed to kill himself and you go out of your way to inform us and practically laugh in his face, asking US what we feel about the scammer and/or his more-than-IG victim.

Frankly, if you feel the goons are an okay bunch and do no harm and that we should all agree, that's fine. Your opinion is noted, and you have the right to make it. But your constant blating of "the goons aren't as bad as you say" and/or "Mittens is a cool dude and don't deserve the shit he got for being an asshole" is getting tiresome; those who agree with you have stated as such, those who don't have also made it clear.

All your doing right now is underlining the feelings and opinions of the ones that don't like the goons, and don't much help your cause, quite the contrary, you seem to be hell-bent on continuing your line of reasoning and behavior regardless of what happens or is said here. Perhaps next time some other poor bastard actually DOES manage to kill himself and you will laugh at him as well. The goons are likely going to pop the cork for that one as well. If they have not already.

[Myyona]

I do not like Goons as a result of their meta-gaming standards. Period.

[Bacchanalian]

If I've got this right one of the many thousands of random victims of the goons was far more fragile IRL than most of us and could not cope, now he failed to kill himself and you go out of your way to inform us and practically laugh in his face, asking US what we feel about the scammer and/or his more-than-IG victim.

Frankly, if you feel the goons are an okay bunch and do no harm and that we should all agree, that's fine. Your opinion is noted, and you have the right to make it. But your constant blating of "the goons aren't as bad as you say" and/or "Mittens is a cool dude and don't deserve the shit he got for being an asshole" is getting tiresome; those who agree with you have stated as such, those who don't have also made it clear.

All your doing right now is underlining the feelings and opinions of the ones that don't like the goons, and don't much help your cause, quite the contrary, you seem to be hell-bent on continuing your line of reasoning and behavior regardless of what happens or is said here. Perhaps next time some other poor bastard actually DOES manage to kill himself and you will laugh at him as well. The goons are likely going to pop the cork for that one as well. If they have not already.

Amusingly, if I had posted the same wall of text full of assumptions, accusations, and over-the-top nonsense it'd have been immediately moderated.  I reported it and nothing happened.  Love the moderation around here. 

You can put words in my mouth all day long.  It's sometimes entertaining to read, and at times I almost reach up to my head to check for the horns that I'm sure are sprouting out of my temples.  But really, I posted that because I thought it was an interesting twist in the discussion.  The Goon in question wasn't reprimanded by CCP, he wasn't banned, the scam wasn't reversed, and unlike the Mittani incident, the victim actually did cause himself harm and claimed it was related to the scam in question.  It certainly reinforces the "holding CSM members to a higher standard" position, but fogs up the bit about what you can and cannot say about someone's mental health in such a situation. 

Forgive me for wanting to continue the conversation, I thought that at least some of the posters on this forum possessed the maturity to delve deeper into the issues.

[Victoria Stecker]

Pot stirring time.

Goons scammed some mentally instable dude out of all of his worth in EVE.  Dude proceeds to fail at offing himself then posts pictures to twitter of how actually managed to down the road rather than across the street but still didn't quite do the job.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?13161-Scammer-took-my-cash-I-feel-like-killing-myself-IRLIngame-%28blawrf-vs-human-decency%29

Right?  Wrong?  Should the scammer feel bad?  Should he be thrown in jail, tied to a wall and tickled with feathers 12 hours a day?  Electric chair?  Patted on the back?

Overall, I'd chalk it up to goons being goons and EVE being EVE. My opinion of the goon in question would depend on whether he knew ahead of time that he was messing with someone unstable or if it was just another person to scam. Assuming ignorance, then it was just a goon scamming another player (surprise, surprise) and then that player doing something unfortunate of his own volition. On the other hand, if the goon knew about it and decided to ruin his day anyways... well, this is EVE, but once in a while I like to hope that deep down Goons are still human beings. Frequently they encourage this belief, other times not.

[insert recycled argument about this being EVE and how the emotionally unstable, fragile, or vulnerable shouldn't play]

[Desiderya]

Imho the Mittani situation was due to him being CSM/Chairman and it being on an official CCP event that got streamed into the wide world - and got watched by quite a lot of people.

In essence, one shouldn't joke about it. But people on the internet talk a lot of things, and frankly you can easily - and rightly so - assume that many people that got scammed and are saying such stuff are just trying to get their stuff back via pity.

[Bacchanalian]

Pot stirring time.

Goons scammed some mentally instable dude out of all of his worth in EVE.  Dude proceeds to fail at offing himself then posts pictures to twitter of how actually managed to down the road rather than across the street but still didn't quite do the job.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?13161-Scammer-took-my-cash-I-feel-like-killing-myself-IRLIngame-%28blawrf-vs-human-decency%29

Right?  Wrong?  Should the scammer feel bad?  Should he be thrown in jail, tied to a wall and tickled with feathers 12 hours a day?  Electric chair?  Patted on the back?

Overall, I'd chalk it up to goons being goons and EVE being EVE. My opinion of the goon in question would depend on whether he knew ahead of time that he was messing with someone unstable or if it was just another person to scam. Assuming ignorance, then it was just a goon scamming another player (surprise, surprise) and then that player doing something unfortunate of his own volition. On the other hand, if the goon knew about it and decided to ruin his day anyways... well, this is EVE, but once in a while I like to hope that deep down Goons are still human beings. Frequently they encourage this belief, other times not.

[insert recycled argument about this being EVE and how the emotionally unstable, fragile, or vulnerable shouldn't play]

Reading his post it kinda goes both ways.  The target in question brings up his mental instability early in the relationship, but the scammer chalks it up to :attentionseekingontheintarwebs: which we all know happens (literally anytime a discussion about mental health comes up in a couple channels I'm in suddenly the entire channel sounds off with their own special mental condition).  He didn't really seriously believe that there were any issues until after the scam was completed, and at that point it was out of his hands, the guy had already cut himself and was posting from the hospital. 

The scammer did say he poked around to some friends about the guy's alleged mental health woes, and the general consensus was one of three things:  a) not your problem; b) let darwin sort it out; c) he's probably just attention-whoring.  He eventually decided he couldn't play the game worrying about how seriously some people took the game outside of the game and went ahead with it.

[BloodBird]

Amusingly, if I had posted the same wall of text full of assumptions, [Specify, please. What assumptions?] accusations, [Like what? That you support the goons no-matter what they do? That impression has not changed with anything you have done recently] and over-the-top nonsense [Over-the-top nonsense? Okay. Specify] it'd have been immediately moderated.[No you wouldn't, because...]  I reported it and nothing happened. [...nothing happened. Ergo, Mods have not yet reacted and will be burning my post soon, or found nothing wrong and won't burn the post, EVER. Ergo they would not have burned yours either] Love the moderation around here.  [So do I, in a non-sarcastic manner. So far it's actually helped me fix a few things. Or try to, at the least]

You can put words in my mouth all day long. [I have not done anything like this. Kindly point out what you believe is putting words in your mouth, because I've replied above to your own post where you bring something most of us would likely NEVER see to our attention and ask what we think, effectively rubbing a goon-scam event into our faces and asking "How is it? Good, bad?" - And I pointed this out] It's sometimes entertaining to read, and at times I almost reach up to my head to check for the horns that I'm sure are sprouting out of my temples. [Don't over-react. Claiming that my impression is that you support the goons no-matter-what is not the same as accusing you of being theebil. In fact, I've kept wondering why you do and what makes the goons so wonderful] But really, I posted that because I thought it was an interesting twist in the discussion. [It wasn't. It was a post on a forum that, again, the majority of us were likely never going to read. In it, a goon brags about scamming people (possible in eve and this is innocent in and of itself) and loving how he has a friend who helped him find this guy with mental issues and lots of assets. He detailed how they made a direct plan to scam him, hoping for a direct reaction they could gloat about. And they did. And they were proud, and happy. Happy to push about yet another guy, but this time, it was THE MOTHER-LOAD because it was someone with admitted mental problems. This does not change my impression or opinion of the goons at all] The Goon in question wasn't reprimanded by CCP, he wasn't banned, the scam wasn't reversed, and unlike the Mittani incident, the victim actually did cause himself harm and claimed it was related to the scam in question. [Mittany could have said the exact same thing he said on the CSM meeting in his own forums, and none in CCP would give a shit. That's because he would not be in a LIVE CSM MEETING with CCP's face on full display for all to see. And on the goon boards, odds are such a huge section of EVE's player-base would not be watching and possibly heeding his call. He asked them directly (the EVE populace) to go bother this guy out of game. He could not keep his tongue in such a wonderful position, and so CCP burned him for it. and not very hard, one might mention.] It certainly reinforces the "holding CSM members to a higher standard" position, [Of course it does. CCP can't allow people on a live, official feed, to call for their member-base to harass members of it out of the game on the behest of some guy who gets a kick out of this kind of behavior. This goes without saying] but fogs up the bit about what you can and cannot say about someone's mental health in such a situation. 

Forgive me for wanting to continue the conversation, I thought that at least some of the posters on this forum possessed the maturity to delve deeper into the issues. [Who is making assumptions now, Bacch? Just because most seem happy to perhaps read but not write about this (for whatever reason they might have) is no call to call their maturity - of all things - into question over it. Nor is it okay for you to question mine because I apparently find the behavior of the goons disgusting and your support for them bizarre]

Replies are in the quote.

[Chell Charon]

Pot stirring time.

Goons scammed some mentally instable dude out of all of his worth in EVE.  Dude proceeds to fail at offing himself then posts pictures to twitter of how actually managed to down the road rather than across the street but still didn't quite do the job.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?13161-Scammer-took-my-cash-I-feel-like-killing-myself-IRLIngame-%28blawrf-vs-human-decency%29

Right?  Wrong?  Should the scammer feel bad?  Should he be thrown in jail, tied to a wall and tickled with feathers 12 hours a day?  Electric chair?  Patted on the back?

You scam someone online, in a game with very little IG or RL consequences for it. Fine by me.

That someone turns out to be mentally unstable and harms himself due to your ingame actions? Certainly not your fault.

Now, after you find out that that mentally unstable person has harmed themselves RL you are going to draw further attention to them? See, this is where I start thinking you need to be special flavour of something to kick someone when they are down.

[Chell Charon]

Heres the thing in this. An average person is quite fine in saying, for instance unbeliavably racists comments, only flashback of those comments is likely to be that the people who here of them are going to label you a racist.

a Politic uttering the same comments in live broadcast to most people at all interested in the matter is going to get a whole lot more flak for it. Whether you think it's fair or not.

[Silas Vitalia]

Catching up a bit on this one

Bach, are you suggesting it is unfair that the Goon leader was treated differently than the low-level scammer?